Canine Autoimmune Hemolytic Anemia (AIHA & IMHA) - Zodie

I was just wondering if anyone has heard how Zodie is doing? We are keeping her in our prayers. Cheryl & Ginger

Cheryl & Ginger Pineville PA

Hi Cheryl & Ginger. Thanks for asking! Zodie had a really bad week last week, with CBC dropping to 14. She's on a 3rd immune suppressent now. This week her CBC was up to 24 and she has had some energy again. Both drops she has had since she came home have come after not getting her medication (once I forgot and another time she threw it up and we did not notice). It's very frustrating to see how fast she goes downhill after missing just one med cycle, but she has recovered quickly both times. I really broke down at the vet when she was 14 and thought that was the end. I am such a dog-guy and she means alot to me (and my wife & kids). Just like all of our dogs in this forum. There are so many sad stories here but so muck persistance! It's encouraging and I feel the passion and strength of all of you. I am not sure how long she can go on with the high meds she is taking now (80 mg pred per day, 20 mg cyclo, 25 mg Azathioprine). She's taking Femotadine for her stomach but this can't be good for her. We'll just see what happens and keep her comfortable. It's a great day when she gets up to come greet me at the door or follow me up & down the stairs, or even sits there staring at me looking for food handouts. I look forward to getting her out for some short walks as the weather gets warmer here. Makes me teary just thinking about it. Thanks, Greg

Greg MA

greg- just wanted to come by and say prayers for zodie, wishing her well

josh california

Greg Glad to hear that Zodie is okay, I worry when I don't see any posts about certain dogs after a few days. What kind of dog is she and how much does she weigh? It does take time for the meds to kick in so hopefully she will be doing better soon. It is amazing how the small things a dog did before being diagnosied that we just took for granted mean so much to us now. Keep us posted. Cheryl & Ginger

Cheryl & Ginger Pineville PA

Hi Greg, Prayers for Zodie from me, too. I wanted to ask if you are giving her sucralfate at all? It might not be a bad idea given the amount of pred. Also, if you dont want to give sucralfate or vet does not, you could try slippery elm bark. You buy it at health food stores as a powder, and use a teaspoon to a cup of water to boil it up, then let it cool and feed some with a syringe. I would sweeten it with a little honey and give my kent 3ml from a syringe once or twice a day depending on how he was doing. SEB is just a milder natural version of sucralfate, with the benefit of some nutrition and no side effects. Christine

Christine Fl

Hi Greg' Just wanted to let you know that we are thinking about your family and Zodie and hoping for the best. The meds can be tough on them but they are a necessary evil. Our GSD/Cocker Spaniel mix Sheba was on 50 mg. of pred and 250 mg. of cyclo for a long time. While she is still suffering from some rear leg weakness as a result of the pred (and lack of exercise because this winter has been COLD), she is doing very well today, off all meds and her PCV is hanging in there at 39.2. So, hang in there, and rejoice in the little triumphs. We are praying that Zodie will beat this thing! Rita, Mike and Sheba

Rita IA

Greg, It is so awful to see these dogs that have been so active, so tired and lethargic from the illness and all the drugs. I kept thinking, I wish my dog would just get up, shake himself and it would all be gone and I have my "old" dog back. I went on Joanne's site with all the success stories all the time to keep me thinking positive. Thank you Joanne!!! I still go on there to learn more and I also read old posts on this forum. I have never been on the internet so much! The thing to keep in mind, they are not in pain, just tired. Keep up a good face for Zodie's sake, as hard as it is. I will be thinking of Zodie and her wonderful family. Best wishes, Brigitte and Kahlu

Brigitte BC Canada

Greg, Sending prayers your way for your family and for Zodie that she can keep up the fight. I know how hard it is to watch them go through this, I know when our Holly went into the hospital 2 years ago, after only having her for about 3 months we actually said goodbye to her because we thought we would never see her again. But here it is 2 years later and she is still fighting hard. I also agree with the idea of giving her sucralfate for her stomach, a protectant. Even though Holly only gets prednisone twice a week, she still gets the sucralfate on those days 1 hour before the prednisone. Linda

Linda Sapphire

Good to hear from you Greg, I have been praying for you and Zodie. Hang in there, it's a long journey. SUE

Susie Delaware

Hi all, Thanks for the thoughts and suggestions! I will have my wife Mary Beth ask the vet about sucralfate during Zodie's visit Monday. Sounds like a great idea! It's been in the 50's here on Cape Cod this weekend so we've gotten Zodie out for walks. She is a boxer who was about 75 pounds when she started this. I think she's in the lower 60's now. Her hind legs could definitely use soem exercise. She has lost alot of hair on her sides. She did this alst year and we thought it was a lack of Melotonin and gave her pills for that. Not sure how that could relate to what's going on now. Thanks again for your wishes. You guys are so great! -Greg

Greg MA

Hi Greg, Glad Zodie got out with you. Regarding the skin stuff, Tiggs is a pittie mix, so very short hair as well, and many times all three of my dogs (all pitties or pittie mixes), have lost fur. Possible causes are hypothyroid, allergies, or even Iatrogenic Cushings, which can be caused by high doses of steroids. We added Dermcaps, which are basically fish oil/flax, etc, with lots of Omega fatty acids. That helps quite a bit. But, it would be worth pulling a thyroid panel, as well as checking for Cushings (if it's the Iatrogenic type, it will most likely reverse when they are off of Pred, or on lower doses). All our best to Zodie and her family! melissa and tiggs

melissa slc

Hey all, Just an update. Zodie's number was up to 26 this past Monday. That's good! I just mentioned in another thread about her getting skin bumps, and one just pulled off easily with some hair tonight and there was alot of puss on the bare skin underneath. Kind of scary. She's on 80mg pred, 100mg cyclo and 25mg azath daily. Could it be side effects of the meds? Maybe another reason to get thyroid numbers checked? Thanks, Greg

Greg MA

It's actually 200mg cyclo (Atopica) that we're giving daily. Thanks

Greg MA

Hey all, Zodie's CBC is down to 20 this week. She's really not doing well. She is eating but is getting weaker all the time. She's having a hard time with stairs. We have her on antibiotics now to make sure her staph stays under control. It seems better. Hard to believe she's only 4. Thanks, Greg

Greg MA

Hi Greg I am sorry to hear Zodie is not doing well. I was just wondering if she has a Trough Test done to make sure the Atopica level is correct in her system, pehaps they might have to incress the dosage based on the results of this test. I don't think this can be done at the vets office and the blood must be sent out. Is she on pet-tinic? We are keeping Zodie in our prayers. Cheryl & Ginger

Cheryl & Ginger Pineville PA

Greg, You and Zodie are in our thoughts. We hope that she has a turnaround soon. All we can do is take it one day at a time, and hope that tomorrow things will improve. Hang in there! melissa and tiggs

melissa slc

Greg, Sorry to hear that Zodies condition seems worse. Remember that with these medications she will become weaker from muscle loss. This could lead to her having a hard time getting up the steps. Have you ever gotten the reticulocyte #'s from her doctor? She should definetely have the Trough test done if she is on Cyclosporine. Ask her doctor about this. You may want to try to limit Zodie's activity ... especially with exercise. I find that when Tessy uses up too much energy then she seems more lethargic over the next day or two. This may just be the case with Tessy but maybe someone else could chime in about exercise or overexcertion. Just remember to keep a strict medication routine. This is imperative and could lead to her full recovery. It's very important not to miss any doses as this could cause her HCT to drop again, which in turn would make her more weak and also make it harded for her body to recover as fast. When Tessy was on the antibiotics at first her CBC seemed to remain constant for longer periods of time. Once she was taken off them her HCT began to climb. Again, I do not know if this was just coincidence or if antibiotics affect CBC #'s or what. Again...maybe someone else could answer this better than me. If you are concerned about her thyroid #'s then you should ask her doctor about getting them checked. Knowing this could give you more peace of mind. I'll keep Zodie in my thoughts and prayers and I hope she recovers fully from this evil disease. Tessy sends her wags. Johnny & Tessy

Jonathan

Greg, You and Zodie are in my thoughts and prayers. Penny

.Penny Lytle Creek Calif

Greg, I am just catching up with Zodie. Have you had a full thyroid panel done? I am very suspicious that her being a Boxer, she may have hypothyroidism. I am doubly suspicious when you say she has symmetrical flank hair loss. The thyroid gland is very important in the blood making process. Dr. Dodds would surely want to do a thyroid panel to ensure that this isn't one of the contributing factors. Has your vet discussed whether she is regenerating red blood cells or not? Without your blood test results I can't say for sure, but it really sounds to me like this is what is happening. This would be a further indicator to check those thyroid levels. Dr. Dodd's Hemopet would be an excellent place to have blood work sent. See test requests: http://www.hemopet.org/services.html Treatment is a simple inexpensive pill two times a day. Chance is on soloxine. my best patrice

Patrice NYS

Great info once again guys. Thank you! Zodie is regenerating red blood cells. We had the thyroid panel done when she was originally in the hospital. We're going to call the doctor about this today with the Dr. Dodd's info and revisit this option. Thanks again for the info and your kind thoughts, Greg

Greg MA

Hi all, We were going to get a full thyroid panel done on Zodie this week, but on Monday when we went to the vet they said they would not get accurate readings because of the pred she's taking. Does that seem accurate? Also, the vet said she'd been looking online for answers on some other site for vets and said the next thing to do might be to remove Zodie's spleen. That seemed kind of drastic and out of the blue to us. Zodie continues to be very weak and fell on her face getting out of the car at the vet the other day. So sad! She is still eating vvery well though, but other than that is not doing much of anything. Just looking for opinions on the thyroid panel and spleen idea if you have any. Thanks! Greg

Greg MA

Greg, I really hope Zodie gets better. This is such a hard thing to deal with. I know what you mean about jumping out of the car too fast. Tessy also did that a couple times and also does it when she chaces the cat down the steps too fast. I have no experience with the whole spleen option but my vet also said it was an option for Tessy...that was awhile ago now though. Tessy had blood taken today to send to Dr. Dodds to have thyroid tests done. They took quite a large amount (I think like 6ml or something). As far as the pred and thyroid testing concerns...I never heard anything on the sort. They just wanted to know how long after the meds the blood was taken. You got me curious now! Have you contacted any specialists yet? If you answered this in a previous post sorry...I'm a little slow on the draw today. Keep us posted on how she is doing. I'll keep her in my htoughts and prayers. Johnny and Tessy

Jonathan

Hi Greg Sorry to hear Zodie is not doing well and we hope she is feeling better soon. What was her PCV the last time she had it tested? Has your vet suggested cyclosporine,sometime they need to add this in addition to the Pred and Aza. Keeping Zodie in our prayers Cheryl & Ginger

Cheryl & Ginger Pineville PA

Hi Cheryl, We've had her on cyclo, pred & aza for awhile now. Her number was 20 this past Monday. It's been weeks with these dosages now and nothing happening. Hope Ginger is doing OK. -Greg

Greg MA

I think at this point I would have the trough test done as they may have to increase the dosage of the of the cyclo. I would try to have it done as soon as possible. Cheryl & Ginger

Cheryl & Ginger Pineville PA

Greg, I am not sure why your vet would say the prednisone interferes with the thyroid test, but run this question directly by Dr. Dodds' lab at Hemopet: Phone: (714) 891-2022 Fax: (714) 891-2123 e mail: hemopet @ hotmail .com (remove spaces to send) The removal of the spleen is a therapy that is discussed in a number of veterinary references. I have the text "Schalm's Veterinary Hematology" and there is brief mention of this removal under "Treatment" in the Immune-Mediated Hemolytic Anemia chapter: "No evidence exists that splenectomy (to remove a major site of extravascular hemolysis and autoantibody production) has any beneficial effect." In another chapter: "Anemia Associated With Immune Responses": "Splenectomy, which removes a major site of extravascular hemolysis and autoantibody synthesis, can be considered in refractory or relapsing cases but may result in only temporary clinical improvement." The theory behind this makes a lot of sense, remove the organ that seems to be responsible for destroying the most RBC (and platelets), but is it maybe a little too extreme? The immune system is very active in the spleen, but it's not limited in its action to the spleen but remains active throughout the body, so removing the spleen doesn't immediately halt the destruction. Chance had his spleen removed in early 2007 but it was not for IMHA, but rather he had a large mass on it. The removal of the mass and spleen were necessary and he seemed to recover quite well. However, it was not quite two months later he developed a very severe form of AIHA/IMHA. The surgery, which I watched, is not difficult for most regular vets. But it is fairly lengthy and requires a good sized incision in the abdomen. If Zodie isn't doing well right now the surgery could be very hard on her. There can be blood loss that requires another transfusion. If you are not directly in contact with Dr. Dodds then I would suggest you get the thyroid panel done, with Hemopet's help, and get an email off to her about your case. You cannot continue at 80 mg of pred for much longer. She may have many suggestions on what to tweak in Zodie's protocol. my best patrice

Patrice NYS

This thread was discussed between 05/03/2009 and 01/04/2009

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