Canine Autoimmune Hemolytic Anemia (AIHA & IMHA) - Worming and Fleaing and IMHA Dog

Dear All, I've searched the archives with not much luck on this topic. We've noticed our 11 year old Maltese Sh*tsu X Millie 'scooting' her butt around on the floor as if it's itchy. I think it's related to the diarrhea she's constantly had, however I am a little concerned that she could have worms. I have not wormed or fleaed Millie since diagnosed with IMHA in January this year. I questioned my vet on Millie's last check up, and she said the brand 'Advantage' is fine to use (it's the liquid one you put on the back of their neck and treats them for worms and fleas). However I've read posts on here that say Frontline potentially caused IMHA in some dogs. I assume this works in a similar way to 'Advantage'. I do not want to give anything to Millie that might cause a relapse. Am I better to give her a tablet? Are worming tablets safe in IMHA dogs? Millie hardly ever goes outside or has contact with other dogs, so I'd be surprised if it's worms causing her butt to be itchy - but I should worm her, just in case. Thanks in advance for your help, Samantha & Millie.

Sasmantha Geelong

Samantha, I strongly believe that Advantage played a part in Kahlu's AIHA. If it was not the actual cause, my gut feeling was that it was one of the triggers. Of course most vets don't think that it is a contributor. As for worming, would it be possible to do a stool sample and have it analyzed? The scooting could be because Millie has problems with her anal glands and not worms. An analysis would make sure you are not taking an unnecessary risk. Best wishes, Brigitte & Kahlu

Brigitte BC Canada

Hi Samanta and Millie I am not sure this is the reason for her scooting but in the past I have had a dog scoot when ever his anal gland was full, the vet can express them in his office if they are not too bad. See some of the symptoms below, my dog never had a bad smell. Symptoms of anal gland problems usually include a bad smell. The glands can become impacted or infected, causing them to produce a thicker than normal fluid that has a bad odor. Dogs may attempt to lick or bite at the area if they are experiencing discomfort. Your dog may also “scoot” across the floor on his bottom with his tail up (called scooting). If your pet cries when going to the bathroom or shows signs of pain, then the anal glands may have become infected. Small breeds are more susceptible to anal gland problems than large breeds. Just a thought and I would recommend contacting your vet to be on the safe side. Cheryl & Ginger

Cheryl & Ginger Pineville PA

Dear Brigitte and Cheryl, Thank-you! I had no idea about the anal glands, so now I'm going to do a bit of research tonight when I get home from work! Millie was quite agitated yesterday when 'scooting', I could tell by the noises she was making... :( she's also had a fair bit of mucous in her stools, but Cheryl, I haven't noticed a bad smell, but like you said, neither did you when your dog had this problem. We have an appointment with the vet on Thursday for Millie's blood screen (we reduced the Imuran a week and a half ago), so I'll mention the scooting and the anal glands then. I am a little concerned the vet doesn't think products like Advantage and Frontline are potential IMHA triggers.... Thanks so much once again, Samantha & Millie.

Samantha Geelong

Hi Sam, Madison has had the same thing and the vet just cleared the anal gland when i took het last time. The vet said the dogs scoot along and try to clear it themselves - sometimes it does sometimes it doesnt. Also when Madison is groomed the groomer clears the gland also. I think it is pretty common in our dogs breed. Sam

Samantha Perth Australia

Samantha, Even if your vet thinks Advantage is the best thing since sliced bread, that does not mean you have to put it on Millie! You have taken such good care of her, it would be a shame to wreck it all because of these chemicals. You never said that Millie actually had fleas, you just suspected worms. So i would strongly advise not to use Advantage. I don't think that Advantage prevents worms, just fleas. I could be wrong on that though. As for the anal glands, I talked to my vet about the magic of pumpkin for diarrhea AND constipation in dogs. She said she always tells clients that have dogs with anal gland problems to feed a bit of pumpkin. Apparently the large fiber content really helps. Oh the magic of pumpkin! And it has no side effects either! Best wishes, Brigitte & Kahlu

Brigitte BC Canada

Thanks for the advice everyone. Brigitte - I think the product that does both is called 'Advocate'? I certainly won't be giving her either Advocate or Advantage. Millie doesn't have fleas, so I have no need to treat her for that and I won't be using any preventative treatments either. Sounds like the most likely cause is the anal glands, so this is what I'll talk to the vet about on Thursday. Do you just use pure mashed pumpkin? I tried the pumpkin baby food (I couldn't find the filling in any supermarkets here in Oz). That helped, but in the last week or so, we've noticed that the diarrhea is back intermittently. How nice to use a natural remedy for a change! Can I ask what everyone does for worm prevention? Is it better to take a sample to the vet to be tested? Millie also needs her annual dental scale and clean (which I assume she can't have anymore with the IMHA) and I'm to scared to take her to get clipped in case the stress triggers the IMHA.... Samantha & Millie

Samantha Geelong

Hi Sam, My vet wont let Madison be wormed, flea treated or vaccinated again as this is what we think caused Madison AIHA as she was vaccinated and wormed 2 weeks prior. Madison has been groomed 2 times since being sick (the vet where she goes also does grooming) They use natual shampoo with oameal which stops fleas and i have bought the shampoo from them so i bath her in that every month. I am not allowed to use normal pet shampoo as it contains chemicals... You could always find a groomer that comes to your house so then you are there and it wont be stressful on Millie?? Madison has a raw bone every week to clean her teeth and that works a treat. Samantha

Samantha Perth Australia

I also have a Cocker who has AIHA. I no longer allow ANY vaccs- not even rabies. I also no longer put ANY chemicals on him. I use "Garlic & Brewers Yeast" tablets for flea & tick control. In the 2 yrs since I've been using it he has had no fleas or ticks & we live in a very tick prone area. He loves the pills- they are flavored & he just gobbles them up. I bought them online & they are not expensive. VERY safe.

Debbie Kentucky

My vet told me it was okay to give Calypso Frontline and Heartguard, but I am hesitant to do so. I am curious as to what others do as far heartworm and tick control. I also live in an area with lots of ticks.

Wendi Ohio

No vaccinations, no topical flea products, nothing, nothing, nothing chemical! I even go as far as no chemicals in Ren's food. I use (as often as possible) home grown veges. Local grown beef with no hormones or antibiotics. Organic chicken is a little more difficult to find so I buy prepared chicken. I have changed my use of chemicals in household cleaning. I only use natural stuff. Common highly diluted bleach works great. I have tried over the past two years to remove any possible trigger of AIHA. Sue & Ren BTW....Ren chased a squirrel yesterday!!!!!

Susan delaware

Samantha, I'm with Susan --- no chemicals whatsoever. I did find a flea on Darcy this morning and freaked out. I didn't spray her with the natural repellent (I use LiquidNet or Burts Bees) yesterday, and that's what happens. You have to be vigilant when you take the natural route. I use a flea comb and shampoo her with Aubrey organics shampoo for dogs. It contains pennyroyal oil and other herbs that are supposed to keep the pet healthy and pest-free. I also read that spraying with half distilled water and half white vinegar works, as well as boiling water and steeping sliced lemons in it overnight, then applying that with a cotton ball helps keep fleas away. I will say that a flea comb is a must. It allows you to see down into the skin and if there are any flea eggs in there, it takes them out, too Good luck!

Karen NC

Hi Sam Phoebe, my shih tzu, has had an ongoing problem with her anal glands and the sure sign of the glands being impacted are scooting across the floor. It takes two minutes for the vet to clear them (you can even learn to do it yourself) but be prepared for the most disgusting smell you have ever experienced!! Once the glands are cleared the scooting will stop, however, one thing to check is that the glands have not been infected, as if this is the case you will need to give Millie anti-biotics to clear up the infection. Phoebe gets her glands cleaned about once every six months but one way to reduce visits to the vet is to put bran (not bran flakes or buds but proper bran available in large bags from health food stores), in with Millie's food. This causes the glands to eliminate everything naturally. Hope this helps. I think small dogs seem to be more prone to this type of problem. Kind regards Gill & Phoebe

gill uk

Dear Everyone, Thank-you all so much for your advice. Millie had her check up today. Yes, she had blocked anal glands! They have now been cleared, so she should be a much happier dog... I will not be giving Millie any vaccinations or chemical worming / fleaing treatments for the rest of her life. Gill - i'm going to try the bran and thanks for the suggestion! I had to have our other two dogs vaccinated today. There has been an outbreak of parvo in the Geelong/Melbourne region that has killed numerous dogs despite receiving treatment, and I simply cannot risk Mitsy and Harry. I hated doing it to them, but I'd never forgive myself if they ended up with Parvo. Thanks so much for all your help! Samantha & Millie.

Samantha Geelong

This thread was discussed between 09/08/2009 and 13/08/2009

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