Canine Autoimmune Hemolytic Anemia (AIHA & IMHA) - What a pink tongue you have!

I certainly know we're not anywhere near out of the woods, and the vets are sticking with their negative diagnosis. BUT, when my two oldest girls and I visited our sweet furry man tonight we were shocked by his bright pink tongue and gums. I can't remember the last time I saw his tongue that bright, pink, and healthy! The poor guy kept trying to push his head through the little petting hole in the oxygen kennel he's still in. The vet said he wasn't eating very well but he gobbled up everything I offered him while we were there. Reggie just needs to be home to feel himself :-) At this point I just want to get him home so he can enjoy his house, family, and yard while he's still feeling a bit better. They have lowered the doses on both the Prednisone and the Azathioprine (sp?). They've also added a stomach protectant in case he's losing platelets through an ulcer. Oh, and they've added a strong antibiotic. For now we'll just be happy with a few more days with the best dog in the world :-)

Amy Wisconsin

Hi Amy, Glad to hear he is doing well from the transfusion and I hope he is home soon. Every moment you can enjoy together is so important for reggie, you and your family. I guess we just keep praying that his body starts healing itself soon. Happy you have had some nice time together and more to come too, Richard and Dylan

Richard Burnaby

Great news, Amy. It is a slow go, but the vets have to find the right balance of meds for each individual pet. Our ride the first 6 mos was oh so hard! The ups and downs with the side effects of the immune surpressants, are just a part of the battle to win. High in there! Blessings, Cindi & Tori (10 mos into recovering from IMHA)

Cindi PCB

Amy, That must have made you all feel so good. Reggie is a fighter and hopefully the stomach protection will help him through this part. Keeping good thoughts for your little man. Penny

Penny Lytle Creek Calif

Amy: We were out of town yesterday and when we got home late and I saw your other post my heart almost stopped. Glad to see this one! I can't remember if Reggie is on cyclosporine. It's very expensive but I am convinced it made the difference for Sheba. If he isn't already taking it you might consider asking about it. As for eating - Sheba was what we all referred to as "food motivated". She LOVED people food and when she was in the ICU at ISU, she wouldn't eat either. We tried everything - deli chicken and ham, real chicken, canned food, you name it. She kept turning her nose up at most of it. On one trip down to see her we stopped in the morning then went on to Des Moines to shop and to get our mind off things and then stopped back to see her on our way home. We bought her treats at Three Dog Bakery and left one with her. She didn't eat it while we were there, but when we left she carried it down the hall to her "bed" and then wound up eating it sometime over night. I knew then she was on the mend. Sometimes it just takes finding the right thing, some faith and lots of patience. In the meantime - hang in there and know that we are keeping you, your family and Reggie in our thoughts and prayers. Rita, Mike and (angel) Sheba

Rita IA

Hi, @Rita, fyi, Reggie is not on Cyclosporine and it won't help him at all in the next few days which is the critical time for him now, as it takes 2 - 3 weeks to work. But he has been on Azathioprine, a similar, but maybe not quite so effective immunosuppressent and has been for more than 2 weeks. Hopefully it has kicked in or will soon. Currently they believe his problem is that too much prednisone and maybe other chemical stress is the cause of his failed recovery, also suppressing his ability to make red blood cells and not just his immune system. So hard to be sure of anything with this disease though. Reggie's mom Amy is fighting this already having spent a lot of money and just had a free second transfusion thanks to the generosity of Dr. Dodd's and her donation of blood from Hemopet (previous thread about Reggie was turned around by Amy's unwillingness to just give up and Dr. Dodd's kindness and generosity). I know cyclosporine can be a life saver, but at $400+ per month, many of us have to choose to fight this disease without it as Dylan and I had to (and in my case I also preferred this in order to minimize chemical stress and maximize my ability to get Dylan off the drugs as much as possible). Go Reggie Go! Go Amy Go! Richard and Dylan, your biggest fans :-)

Richard Burnaby

Reggie has been on Prednisone, Azahtioprine, and Cyclosporine for a little more than two weeks now.

Amy Wisconsin

Sorry, Amy, sorry, Rita, my mistake, I guess that is why you have spent so much. I am also curious why both immunosupressents were used simultaneously? That seems like a cocktail to kill the liver if I ever heard one. I wonder what the side effects are of these drugs too? Hope Reggie is okay today, Richard

Richard Burnaby

Cyclo actually can cause rapid suppression in as little as 2-3 days!!! It's much faster than prednisone! Johnny & Tessy

Johnny

My mistake again :-( That is not what I had read although I di know it was faster than the other immunosuppressants. Thanks for claryfying that for me. Richard

Richard Burnaby

@Johnny, Do you know why they use both Azathiorine and Cyclosporine toegether? I am always trying to learn more, even if I hiope Dylan never needs them. Who knows, maybe a second dog in my family will get this awful disease one day. Thanks, Richard

Richard Burnaby

Dr. Dodds has it on her site is where i got it from. :) It interacts with the blood totally different than the other drugs in the way it suppresses the T&B killer cells.

Johnny

I don't think it's synergenics with cyclo/aza being used together....i think the problem is most vets will start with Pred...then add aza....then go to cyclo when the others don't work...or haven't kicked in yet. I'm not a fan of azathioprine myself but most use it as a second agent based purely on cost. Cyclo works far far better IMO. I was just reading a study the other week regarding azathioprines usage in AIHA when used with pred as compared to pred alone and the results were the same with regards to the anemic state. Keep in mind though that the study was small (100 plus dogs) so accuracy may be an issue. Other older studies showed that the combo of pred/aza/aspirin showed better results. I think Joanne may have a link to those results. I'll see if i can find the study for you.

Johnny

Here is the URL of the study Johnny referred to" http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15934255?dopt=Abstract

Joanne MN

Thank-you Johnny, I know both were developed with improving on 6 mercaptopurine, which had a lot of bad side effects. Cyclosporine is supposed to have fewer as well as did Azathioprine, supposedly (I am a bit of a cynic for some pharmacology research as I was part of a group at one time, bought and paid for by the pharmaceutical company paying for the work). I am sure they were always going for a bigger effect and more broad (works in more cases) as well. If they had shown differences in the study, we could say it was true, but lack of differences is a little harder to be certain from that kind of study. Any good sources of research I would love to have links to. With my scientific background I am fully capable of reading them and understanding them. Your time is very much appreciated. Thank-you again, Richard

Richard Burnaby

Thank-you too Joanne, Richard

Richard Burnaby

UGH.....it took me FOREVER to start understanding studies i was reading. It was SOOOO annoying. I can read most anything now with understandings (almost). Working for the pharmaceutical companies??? I have very very little faith in them...for several reasons! Especially their paid vets! Just too much corruption and money motivated results for my liking. It sucks though that we have very little choice but to rely on them! AMY....sorry for hijacking your thread! Johnny & Tessy

Johnny

You got it Johnny, I was early evidence close up of that. Also why I know the pet food industry is lieing! I was actually doing a PhD, which after 6 years of being pushed around for various other agendas, I left. I was paid by the university and scholarships, the people's money. Tax payer's money. The results and what was being done, the research itself, was paid for by the pharmaceutical company. The pressure on what we should achieve and what are ultimate goals were came from them. Getting more money! I could only do the research to help someone somewhere who was sick. I could not do it for fame, a degree alone, or a a pharmaceutical company. I left! I am much happier as a result. Dog's don't lie :-) Richard

Richard Burnaby

I would consider getting back in for AIHA and to work with someone like Dr. Dodd's. The only person at UBC that I respected for his honesty, could no longer publish work, nor get grants, as his honesty led those who were lieing or did not like what he had to say to reject him. As you can probably tell, I saw myself in him; the critic, loud mouth that I am, (also willing to admit my mistakes in my honesty as well) which was why in the end I decided to leave. Richard

Richard Burnaby

Amy, Yes sorry! Although in some ways this is still about Reggie as he and many others like him are why I would consider getting back into research. Dr. Dodd's who has tried to help Reggie as well and her amazing kindness and obviusly genuine motivations as a veterinarian and a researcher are the other reason. Always thinking of Reggie and you too Richard and Dylan

Richard Burnaby

This thread was discussed on 25/06/2011

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