Canine Autoimmune Hemolytic Anemia (AIHA & IMHA) - Was Wylies doxy doubled by mistake!

okay, hopefully someone can calm my fears, OMG, what was my vet (vacation vet) thinking? I posted mid December about WYlie being sick, they put her on a cephlaxin, she did great but after she stopped she started having the same sytems, so last week they put her on doxy. I was in for my other dog a 100# lab and I think he may have made a mistake and filled according to his weight. I was doing a search because I now think my lab has the same thing Wylie had, exact symptoms, so I thought I could give him her doxy until I get in tomorrow. Wylie is 55# and they have her on 400 mg a day. Everything I read said at the most 5 mg per # which would be 250 mg. She already has freakin liver disease, this probably nuked her poor liver. Laurie

Laurie CA

Did you only give her the dose the one time?

Johnny

Johnny, she was getting 200 mg am and pm Laurie

Laurie CA

So for a week then? Myself...I don't think it is TOOO big a concern. I would drop her back to her normal dosage, or the dosage that was prescribed to her. Maybe you could take her in and have them do a chem panel just to check her values to be safe. Are you giving milk thistle to Wylie? If she has liver problems have you ever considered Denosyl or sam-e to help detox the liver?

Johnny

Laurie, Darcy is 28 pounds and was on 100 mg. Doxy twice daily for six months. Hope this helps. Karen

Karen NC

Laurie, What was the doxy for? If it was for suspected tick disease, the dose is much higher than the regular dose. Need to know the reason the doxy was prescribed. my best patrice

Patrice NYS

Wew, Karen, thanks for the info. Patrice, she tested negative on the snap 4 test but since she did well on her first round of antiobiotics, it was in the cephalixin family and then when she was done, she started getting lethargic/drinking again, they thought maybe some parasite/bacteria the cepahlix didint knock. we have lots of critters/racoons/ squirells here and they get into turkey poop the most. Laurie

Laurie CA

Patrice, I responded on Wylies latest platelet count on her platelet htread and must not have put my name in since it didnt take, she came back at 528 so 300 point jump in 2 weeks. Laurie

Laurie CA

Laurie, Here is the quote from Tick-L on the recommended dose for doxy: "The dosage we recommend on Tick List is an aggressive one: 5 mg. of doxy per pound of body weight given every 12 hours for 8 weeks. For those who prefer to figure body weight in kilograms, this is approximately the same as 10 mg per kg, the difference being not enough to mention." You can read the full treatment page here: http://blackgsd.googlepages.com/treatment So Wylie at 55 lbs * 5 mg = 275 mg every 12 hours = 550 mg daily. So your 400 mg per day is actually lower than the recommended dose for tick disease. If you are treating for either a diagnosed or suspected tick disease this would need to be a bit higher. Doxycycline is an odd antibiotic. Here are some interesting details about this unusual drug that I have collected. "Doxy is Doxycycline Hydrochloride and is a tetracyline antibiotic which is bacteriostatic." "*Bacteriostatic* antibiotics *hamper the growth of bacteria* by interfering with: 1. bacterial protein production, 2. bacterial DNA production, 3. bacterial cellular metabolism "Bacteriostatic antibiotics inhibit growth and reproduction of bacteria without killing them; *killing is done by bactericidal agents.*" "Bacteriostatic agents must work with the immune system to remove the microorganisms from the body." "**High concentrations of most bacteriostatic agents are also bactericidal**, whereas low concentrations of bacteriocidal agents are only bacteriostatic." "This group includes the tetracyclines <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetracyclines>" What this is really saying is that at lower doses doxycycline is a bacteriostatic antibiotic only. It hampers the growth of bacteria. It is only at *much higher doses* does it also behave as a bacteriocidal agent, killing the bacteria as well. It is believed that this is how it is able to eradicate the tick disease. Also, doxy must suffuse or saturate the body tissues at these high doses in order to effectively kill a tick disease in later stages when it begins to go deeper into body tissues (for instance into joints causing joint pain, one of the most common canine symptoms of infection). This is one reason that the dose should be high *twice a day*, kind of a "one-two punch" to the tick disease. Breaking this into smaller doses (like 4x a day) makes it less effective at doing this. These little understood facts about doxy have caused many vets (and human doctors) to under-dose dogs and human patients who have been tested and show infection with with a tick disease. This can lead to an incomplete treatment and a resurgence of the disease in a much more robust way months or years later. My good friend R* was one of these patients. She was misdiagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis, lost her job (and her health benefits) and was not properly diagnosed until years later after she had lost a great deal of her motor function. She lives in pain daily. Her dogs were also both diagnosed with tick diseases as well. I have another friend who went through a similar scenario. So if you ever wonder why I am so focused on testing and treating for tick disease, these friends are my reasons. my best patrice

Patrice NYS

Laurie, I would encourage you to read Jasper's Story on the Vintage Goldens website. It goes into great detail on how this dog was treated with Doxy. The tick borne disease is notorious for producing false negatives and vets will usually prescribe only a small dose, short term (one week) course of the drug when a dog is diagnosed with nonregenerative anemia. Thankfully, God led me to a wonderful woman (not a doctor)who had done extensive research on this for her own dog. She urged me to put Darcy on the higher dose of Doxy. I truly believe that this, along with prayer, is what saved her. However, I know that I have to be vigilant, always checking Darcy to make sure she's not relapsing. She's off the Doxy and all drugs except for low dose Soloxine now. It is my understanding, and our vet agrees, that the tick borne disease can lie dormant, so it doesn't mean it won't return. I will always keep a bottle of Doxy on hand just in case I notice any problems. Sorry, but I don't remember Wylie's original diagnosis. Darcy was diagnosed with severe nonregenerative anemia, never IMHA or AIHA. That's the only diagnosis I could ever get from the vets and specialists I carried her to. Please keep us posted on Wylie's improvement. My best to both of you. Karen

Karen

Karen, I am sorry to read this about Jasper. What you describe truly bears out what many other owners have experienced on the Tick-L list. A poorly treated first episode can go on to smolder a lifetime and the tests don't necessarily show this. The hard core grass root experts in tick disease feel that this indicates continued treatment with doxy, just as you have figured out. You won't find agreement on this topic within the academic community. The research is not there yet. Some of these academics say that doxy can act in other ways that can ameliorate pain and that doesn't necessarily indicate that it is treating a tick disease. Regardless, there are some dogs out there walking around in good health that would otherwise be very sick. my best patrice

Patrice NYS

Karen, I am afraid that time is often my enemy. I know that Darcy is your girl and not Jasper. It was a mistake for me to write that. I should not try to rush when I am responding to folks here.... Please accept my apology Patrice

Patrice NYS

This thread was discussed between 03/01/2010 and 04/01/2010

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