Canine Autoimmune Hemolytic Anemia (AIHA & IMHA) - Vet appointment tomorrow

So we have an appointment tomorrow for Gunner, blood work, meds and to go over all his issues. I have no idea how we are going to get him in our SUV , his legs have been so so week it's heartbreaking ! We try to get him out in the yard every hour or two when we are home all day and bribe him to walk around with treats etc. but he's only goes so far then wants to sit. His poor legs look so thin and weak. I feel like we are doing everything we can ... good food , protien and veggies. Supplements, being diligent with his meds. I just feel like he can't catch a break. He is just not himself lately :( I'm trying to stay positive. I hope things go ok and maybe my vet will have some answers and suggestions also ! Keep us in your prayers!! Thanks so much. PS I know a lot of you have said once the pred is reduced the muscle mass starts to come back , but how long does it take ? (approx) I just feel like if he goes on like this he won't be able to get up at all. And being 120 pounds he is impossible to carry around. Thanks again, jacki and Gunner

jacki Phila

Jacki, I'm so sorry to hear about Gunner not doing so well. If I may make a suggestion... as I've posted, Beau was not doing so well either -- to the point where I was really terrified he wasn't going to make it. Very very weak with dropping PCV. My vet had me take him to Dr. Klag at VSEC, which I know isn't far from you. The turnaround has been remarkable. Dr. Klag was able to pull all the issues together -- and it appears that most of these came from the high dosage of prednisone. Being carefully monitored, he is being taken off the prednisone at what I perceive to be a quick pace -- within three to four weeks down from 40 mg/day to 10 mg/day -- and his azethioprine cut to 25 mg/day from 35mg. The change has been remarkable. He has improved so much just getting off the prednisone dosage. His PCV has been stable, but I believe when we return on Thursday morning we will see a jump (fingers crossed!). Moral of this story -- maybe a different set of eyes looking at Gunner and his issues can make a difference? Perhaps your vet can at least consult with Dr. Klag and see what he thinks? To us, he's been the answer. Good luck! I'll be thinking of you guys! Sharon

Sharon PA

We have are fingers and paws crossed for Gunner at his vet visit, please keep us posted. We had to get a ramp to get Ginger in our truck and that seemed to work well. We put her leash on and walked her up very slowly standing on the side of her with a dog treat reward at the end of the ramp, it may take a few practice sessions It also sounds like it is worth getting him an appointment with Dr Klag. Sending our prayers, Cheryl & Ginger

Cheryl & Ginger Pinevile PA

SO it's now 9:53 am and we have not made it to the vet. Gunner can not put any pressure on his front leg, and pretty much falls over once we get him standing!! Last week it was the back leg, but we were able to put a scarf around his body to hold him up so he could go out and do his business etc. But this is impossible. I made his breafast and tried to bribe him to walk a little, but it was unsuccessful. He still hasn't gone outside to go to the bathroom .. and doesnt seem to care, he seems too worried about using his leg! I just called my vet, I'm hoping since our appointment was at 9:50 she will be promptly returning my call ! This pred has done such damage to Gunner I am so frustrated !!!! And he has so many side effects who knows what drugs are causing what ! He's on about 8 different ones. IF he was a little dog i could carry him. But Gunner being so big he refuses to move! I don't know what else to do. I've been massaging him for the past hour thinking maybe his legs were alseep. God I could go on and on right now .... I'd love to be able to take him to Dr.Klag, but at this point I don't see us getting him out of the house, the loss of muscle mass is horrible .. I wish there was something he could take to build it up quickly! If anyone knows of anything please let me know. I'll keep you posted Jacki and Gunner :(

jacki Phila

Oh Jacki I am so sorry you are going through and I hope you can find a way to get Gunner to the vet soon. I was just wondering if maybe you try to wrap the leg for some extra support, with some vet wrap or even a ace bandage just to see if he will be more willing to get up and move. Maybe you can make the appointment for in the evening when you might have more help getting him to the vet. Sending our prayers and hugs. Cheryl & Ginger

Cheryl & Ginger Pineville pa

One more thought will Gunner go in a crate and you could get help carrying the crate to the car?

Cheryl & Ginger

Jacki, Oh this is a difficult situation. I have missed some of the things going on this week and didn't know that Gunner was still having a serious issue with this leg. I understand how hard it is to move a big dog. I can tell you that we were worried that Chance might not be able to get up. One night he did just that to me. I walked him out the driveway and just across the street to his favorite hydrant. Once there, he would not get up. I work nights and my husband was soundly in bed. I got a large bed comforter tried to roll him onto it and drag it back up the driveway. I probably could have succeeded but I was upset and finally just got Mark up to pick him up. If you need to get him to the vets today, then slings are the way to go. You could use 2 of the largest, longest bath towels you have, wrapped around the body on each end. If they aren't big enough, then use sheets. At the car one person who is strong has to hold both ends while you prop his front legs on the seat. Then put an arm through his back legs, all the way under his crotch and lift. The other person may have to crawl in the other side and ease his body forward while you are doing this. If this does not work then you need a gurney. Any flat surface like an old door will do. I have seen 2 techs at the vet's office pick up very large dogs by rolling them into a large comforter and picking up either end to carry. Lay this on the door and carry the door to the car. Ask for help on the other end. What have they determined about his leg? Has anyone suggested testing for other causes? I was where you are now, in the summer of 2007. Chance was so sick I had no idea what to do anymore. A friend told me it was time to put him down. I wanted other opinions. I called my pet sitter and asked her to come over and evaluate Chance. She is a vet tech and sees plenty of sick dogs all day long. We were sitting on the back deck and Chance came out. He saw a squirrel in the back yard and managed to get himself down the stairs and did a little jog over to chase the squirrel and bark at it. She said "don't do anything yet, he is not that sick." So I made my decision. I talked with my vet about this and she said she would do whatever she could to help him while we waited for his bone marrow to begin making blood again. The side effects of the prednisone were devastating. Then a friend advised me to contact Dr. Jean Dodds. I thought that perhaps this was some kind of scam. Make a cold call to an important person?! I was desperate enough. I called and the answering machine came on. I started to leave a message and suddenly Jean was on the phone asking me all kinds of questions about his lab work. I did not have any of that in hand. She lectured me about getting copies of all of it and faxing no more than 12 pages to her immediately. Withing 4 days we had him on a new protocol, with my vet's blessing, that eventually saved his life. Jean stayed with me by email the whole time, advising me what to do for dosages. In about 3 months we knew he was going to survive and by late fall he was nearly back to normal. The muscle mass does take some time to come back, but it does. If you have not connected with Dr. Dodds of hemopet.org please give it a try. You need a specialist right now to evaluate all of the lab work and to consult with your vet. She will be honest with you and give you the kind of advice you need right now. I remember how scared I felt and I know you must feel the same way. Please remember that we are all here to listen to you and we understand how you feel. We may not have all the answers, but I can tell you for sure I wish we did. Whatever decisions you make are good ones. There is no right or wrong route to take. We know you make them out of love for Gunner. my best patrice

Patrice NYS

Summer was very weak. She her back legs were extremely atrophied. Not as bad as Gunner, I am sure. But pretty bad. She recovered from it very well. She started improving while still on the pred. She is now able to jump upon my bed again with no effort. Just wanted you to know there is hope. Carrie and Summer

Carrie DFW

Jacki, How are you and Gunner doing? Thinking of you, Brigitte

Brigitte BC Canada

I was talking with Jackie on facebook and she got blocked from the site...temporarily. I gave her instructions on how to get her ip and contact Joanne so hopefully she's managed to get in touch. My thoughts and prayers are with you both! Johnny & Tessy

Johnny

I just heard from Jackie and she got blocked from the site again! I told her i'd post for her so here it is...... Hello everyone, Sorry for the delay. I was somehow blocked and thanks to Johnny ... got unblocked :) So update on Gunner, we had a very bad day last Tuesday, I honestly thought it may be that horrible time to make a decision. Then thankfully he started to perk up and his leg wasn't as bad. He held his bladder for 24 hours so he wouldn't have to walk on the leg. We took him out many times since we were both home hoisting him up with scarves to help. But he refused to go to the bathroom... finally at 1 am he did AND walked out pretty much on his own ! He went from taking 30mg of pred to now 20mg as of last Monday, I 'm hoping he will re-gain his muscle mass and start to feel a little better, he is very lethargic still, more so since all of this leg stuff has been going on. He is also taking *Tram...adol for pain and I know that makes him sleepy as well. Do you guys recommend lowering it once a week ? I just wonder if he will ever improve ?? He just keeps having other set backs. And every side effect. Thankfully one of us is always home with him so we can constantly keep our eye on him. But it's so disheartning to see him like this. Has anyone else had a dog that got really bad and made an improvment ? I need some hope ....

Johnny

I have unblocked Jacki again and told her what is blocking/banning her so hopefully she should be able to post again.

Joanne MN

Hi, I know pretty much exactly what you are going through as my dog Dylan has also lost so much muscle mass due to her prednisone dose that she can no longer get up and she can only walk a bit while assisted. This started Sunday and we have been adjusting since. I am using a harness (does not fit as well as it used to, but it does hold her sternum) on her front end, to help hold her front end up and a towel used as a sling to hold up her rear end. After standing for a bit, once she is ready, she can take steps, but does not always get her feet down properly. Some trips are easier than others. This is working so far. The towel alone was difficult to keep both ends up especially when she gets into position to pee, or poo. I am using a 2 wheel dolly and bungee cords to wheel her around in her kennel (photo of the kit below). She seems okay with it and keeps her head up and looks around a bit. I just drag her in and out of my house in her kennel for every trip and do a short assisted walk for pees etc. I used the dolly to go get a blood test done at my vet. We just left her in the kennel the whole time and lifted up on the examination table together in the kennel. Sghe now has a bed sore though and I have to rotate her every few hours, another fun task with a dog as week as Dylan is. Hopefully we go to 20 mg tomorrow (we started at 45, but she has also lost 9 lbs since she started prednisone). Dylan's blood was strong 2 weeks ago and I have my fingers crossed for the results tomorrow. She does have a lot of symptoms from the prednisone too, but I do believe they recover once we get them down to a more reasonable dose. transportation kit (slings and harness are ready inside): http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/216035_168409893214433_100001362714581_362428_4657679_n.jpg Good luck to you and Gunner :-) I definitely know how stressing this is, the anemia was really tough and now this too. Good Luck again! Richard and Dylan

Riichard Ford Burnaby BC

OMG Richard I feel like you are telling my story EXACTLY ! Gunners back legs seem to bother him the most. It switches though ... a few times it was the front. He is at 20mg with the pred this Tuesday will be 2 weeks. I have to say I have seen a small improvement .. so fingers are crossed. How old is Dylan? What a good sport she is :) We have just been nursing Gunner and giving him alot ot TLC ... he needs to go for his blood work but we haven't gotten him there with how he was feeling. I have a call into a traveling vet waiting for a return call. His spirits are great tonight... he got a treat of pizza and he is barking for our attention as we speak :) What meds is she on ? Anything for pain ? Her transportation kit is great,we have use blankets to carry him in and out ... we adapt to his every need at this point. I'm saying a prayer right now for Dylan, please keep me posted ! ~~~~ Johnny thank you for posting for me, apparently a word I was using got me blocked.

jacki Phila

Richard and Jacki, You guys are amazing!!! Talking about not giving up and becoming creative! Your dogs are fighters, that's why they are still here, so be patient and hang in there. Try not to let them feel that you are stressed. Keep a routine and tell them that everything is ok. They live in the moment and are not in pain, just weak and tired. Your love and determination will get you through this! Keep us posted. Best wishes and hugs to you and your best friends. Brigitte & the poodle boys

Brigitte BC Canada

Adapt is certainly how I would describe it. Thanks to the people on this list and in my life that have lived with AIHA in their dogs I am way better prepared than I was when I started this journey a month ago. Dealing with the anemia was so difficult and then just as I am getting used to it, Dylan can't stand up on her own and I was so stressed out. But after a few days we seem to have developed a routine and today was quite a nice day for a change. Dylan spent a fair bit of time outside with me and my other dogs enjoying a taste of spring for a change. I am glad to hear Gunner has shown small signs of improvement. That is certainly what I am watching for in Dylan, but we just dropped to 20 mg yesterday. With the way Dylan has been, I hope we can go to 15 Mg next week. This is a very delicate balance and going to 15 mg is certainly not guaranteed and will depend on what I see over this week, but due to her weak physical state AND strong blood work I am pushing a bit to go quickly, as Dylan's case has been very acute and she went downhill very quickly (less than 4 days from the first symptom to near death) with an equally fast recovery in her blood by 2 weeks and then a very fast degradation of muscle. She can use her hind end to walk (although not too stable), but not to get up and it does not seem to hurt her. She needs to wait a minute or 2 after I stand her up before we can go anywhere. Once we get going I also have to make sure she walks on the pads of her feat as occasionally she does not get her feet all the way forward as well as making sure I support her and hold each end up as she will fall on occasion. With my harness and a towel, I have pretty good control. I am on my own so I have had to learn to be coordinated and adapt quickly. Dylan is 10, but seems she is nowhere near ready to give up. She has been so strong through all of this, I have been completely strengthened by her to persist. She is not on pain meds, only prednisone, but I do believe she is in a little pain, maybe not continuously though (she does have bed sore now and has just gone on an antibiotic), as her defensive fear aggression is stronger than when she was badly anemic. How much of that is aggression from prednisone or from her natural tendency to be aggressive, I don't know, but it also makes it obvious she is not so anemic. She is a rescue who was abused, wild and chased for 2 months before she was 6 months old and always reverts to fear tactics to keep people away when she is freaked out or in pain, which can happen at the slightest thing. I have dealt with this her whole life. She is really good compared to when we rescued her, but in her current condition tends to use fear to try to keep me from what she perceives as hurting her. It is her disease and nothing specific that I am doing other than I am manipulating her and moving her and she just does not want help (yet she asks for it) and it may indeed cause her some pain, but nothing serious. For a day or two I muzzled her to handle her as it calmed her (and me), but she hates the muzzle, so now I just deal with it. She is not strong enough nor is she fast enough to hurt me and it is anxiety, pain and fear, so I take my time and try to calm her before moving on. A little empathy for her situation is all! When she was really anemic I would not take her to the vet until she recovered enough to be able to stand and walk on her own. She was so close to death, I knew that even moving her and the stress it caused was too much, so I kept her as quiet as I could until she turned the corner. At her worst she could not stand and was completely scared. That only lasted 18 hours before she started recovering and was good for 2 weeks as her muscle deteriorated. This was obvious as she fell to 43 lbs and is now 41 (was 50 when diagnosed). Getting her to the vet this last time was easy thanks to the kit I put together (and I have a van with no seats and lots of room for her kennel). Her blood work is amazing and although mildly anemic, she has been only mildly anemic for the last 2 weeks. Her hematocrit was 37%, down from 39% previously, but this is still just at the low end of normal (39 – 56). Her Red Blood Cell count was up slightly at 5.1 (was 4.9, normal is 5.5 – 8.0). Hemoglobin was up only slightly at 131 (from 129, normal is 138-199) and there were no spherocytes this time, which is great news. As far as food, well when we rescued Dylan, she had spent 2 months wild eating whatever she could and was very aggressive at protecting her food. I feed raw diet and started with her when she was still young, but her aggression initially was very strong. Over the years she was able to stand out with my other dogs as I prepared their food and I used to feed her with my 2 other dogs. Not any more, that is for sure. The prednisone made her more aggressive immediately and she even wanted to fight over a scrap of nothing despite being very weak from anemia. She also became more grabby and I had to be careful with all food around her. That is when all the new food rules came out: All dogs in kennels before I prepare meals and washing all dishes immediately after use. Then she started howling during dinner prep. Again, since I feed a raw diet, I have to prepare it and for 15 minutes she howls to varying degrees, especially for the raw meat. Some of my other dogs think this is cool and try too, but no way! I will accept Dylan's behaviour as it is drug induced, but not from the others. I also feel guilty every time I eat and at times have resorted to eating outside to avoid stimulating her. At this point I believe the strong recovery in Dylan's blood is thanks to her healthy diet and especially the larger added portions of beef heart, which is very bloody. I would not suggest changing to a raw diet once sick with AIHA, but I certainly would get away from dog food as fast as possible to aid recovery. I have seen several posts on this subject as I looked back into older threads. I do give Pet Tinic, but Dylan's PCV was 39 before it arrived after being 10-15 at her worst. I still give tastes of my food, including pizza too, but I am careful not to overdue carbs and fat, both of which make the liver work harder. I tend to give her more topping than my other dogs, but generally the treat factor has dropped for all my dogs. My young dogs (<2 years) do get treats when I train them, which can be a problem with Dylan, but I do have some nice dried liver to give her. I would like to turn on my dehydrator to make liver and beef heart treats, but I think it would kill Dylan. Even if it didn't, I don't think I could take 24 hours of howling ;-) Thanks for thinking of us; I am certainly praying for Gunner too. This is a hard battle, but there are lots of great people to help. Feel free to ask anything of me, email me directly anytime, look for me on Facebook too if you are on it. My email is included with this post. Fingers crossed too, Richard and Dylan :+)~

Richard Ford Burnaby

Richard, I am not here much anymore, My 14 year old Wylie is a 3 year survivor so seniors can beat this. Loved your picture of Dylan. As for sudden aggression, Please have Dylan tested for low thyriod, it's onset is very commmon in AIHA dogs and easily treatable. First signs are usually aggression. Take care Laurie

Laurie CA

Richard & Laurie, When i read about Dylan the first time and Richard described the aggression problem, low thyroid was my first thought as well. All of us who have dealt with AIHA/IMHA constantly think about low thyroid. When ever anybody talks to me about a sick dog, I always tell them to check the thyroid. Listless dog, check thyroid. Skin problems, check thyroid and on and on.... It has become an obsession with me. Our daughters said that they will get me a T-shirt for mothers day that says: Have you checked a thyroid today? :) But lets face it, not every aggressive dog has hypothyroidism! Dylan's issues most likely stem from her difficult start in life and they have improved by Richards loving care. Of course, you guessed it, I would still test her thyroid, even just to rule out hypothyroidism as the cause. Having been on high doses of steroids for a while, chance is it will be low because of that anyway. A thyroid supplement could be beneficial for building blood. I know that you are all about good food Richard. I also have been feeding raw for a long time. Please keep in mind that Dylan's immune system is still very compromised. From all I have learned it would be better to cook her food for a little while. You would think that an anemic dog could just eat lots of raw liver and heart, and make lots of red blood cells. Unfortunately it is not that easy. If you feed too much red meat at this point, it is very hard for the liver to process. You could create more liver damage than Dylan probably already has from the steroids. This damage is totally reversible, but you still don't want her liver to work more than it already does. I am sure somebody could explain this more scientific, this is just how I understand it. Best wishes for you and your 4 legged family, Brigitte & the poodle boys

Brigitte BC Canada

hi richard, i would just take a deep breath, i would not take rude behavior, she is an old dog and not feeling good, she is being a dog, normally you cannot increase the iron in a dogs blood with food, because it is the body itself that is causing the destruction of the red blood cells, not a case of bad diet, and until the disease is in a good remission does the blood start to come back, and things start to settle down. take care fellow canuck

Bev

Thanks Brigitte and Laurie, I will definitely be checking her thyroid soon, as I do suspect the prednisone has impacted it significantly, just as it has her muscle. Dylan's blood work has been amazing, but we have not checked everything yet. I have no intention on changing her diet any more just yet, unless her blood work were to fall for some reason. Her disease was caught early, while still mostly intravascular (although so acute it did almost kill her within 4 days), which may have saved some of her capacity to recover. I also had a 39 on PCV before using anything to help, like Pet Tinic and 37 on the 21st of April. In fact, in Dylan's case, the Pet Tinic has not helped it seems, but this may not be the case, so I will continue it. Maybe it is helping prevent further falloff in PCV, rbc and hemoglobin, but her RBC count was 5.1 (minumum normal is 5.5) and and hemoglobin was 131 (minimum is 138) to go with her relativley strong PCV. Also No Spherocytes were detected by the pathologist. I could not ask for more and my vet even refers to her as the miracle dog for her quick recovery. Of course we keep our fingers crossed that this is real and stable. I think it would be unwise to change her diet now for many reasons, but I am open to learning why I should. I am not sure how cooking meat is going to help keep the liver from being required to process it and it may destroy potential benefits. I do make sure she only gets very lean meat, very little fat and also very low carb. There are also added risks from raw food contamination for sure. I take every step I know of to help make sure it is not contaminated. I do know she is digesting it okay and pooping as she should be so I am not concerned about that. When we check her thyroid, we will check her liver too. What I would like is more detailed information on this, as I am not one to make changes without a good reason. I am always trying to learn and do the best for Dylan and all of my dogs. Brigitte, or anyone else with experience and information on Raw diet in AIHA is certainly appreciated as this is uncharted water for us. That is pobably a discussion for another thread rather than hijacking Gunner's (who I have heard is doing well), which I will do a bit later. I know as well as anyone how immune compromised Dylan is. I know what the prednisone is doing and I know what her disease is and why we have shut down her immune system. As I have said in my other thread on Dylan, 23 years of living with a person with Crohn's disease and having tried every drug (including remicade which has not been mentioned here, maybe due to cost and lack of trials on this particular disease, my ex wife did clinical trials for it) and have read all kinds of information surrounding Crohn's and auto Immune diseases in general for more than 2 decades. Of course being that the RBC's are the target and given the acute nature of Dylan's attack, we will always live with fear, balancing prednisone, or other treatment against her immune system. And although we look forward to potential remission, I will always be looking for a sign the disease has come back. On top of that we have to watch every infection and be careful of everywhere we go (not unlike I had to do with Suki). Dylan is more aggressive, but she has always been aggressive when handled even when healthy. Always! And I have to handle her constantly which is when she gets stnarly to me. Her aggression is fairly normal for her in that she is not attacking me, but trying to tell me to stay back, using fear. This is normal for her and occurs whenever you touch her feet, limbs, or try to pick her up since I got her 10 years ago. She calms down and let's me in every case, I don't need to muzzle her, just pay attention and let her adjust, and remember not to rush. These are her real requirements. She needs time after she sits up, or stands before she is ready to move on. I think this is all to be expected from her given her situation. Otherwise she is doing great. She is not sensitive to my touch and lets me message her and rub and wash her without aggression. If I clean her and manipulate limbs I get aggression initially, but that is normal too. I have never been able to clean her off after a play in the mud, like my other dogs. I have to be very careful with each foot and make sure she is ready before I lift it to clean it. Some days, she woould not let me no matter what. So at the moment, she is way better than I would ever have expected given the state of her health. I always expected I would have to euthanize her if she became seriously ill, as her agression would be the main problem. She is letting me help her and because of it, I give no thought to this. Go Gunner, thinking of you! Richard and Dylan PS, sorry I can't help it, I am long winded!

Richard Ford Burnaby

Richard, here is a very good article about diet and the liver. Hope this helps. http://www.b-naturals.com/newsletter/liver/

Laurie CA

Richard: Richard,: I would think it would be normal for your dog to become more aggressive. You have mentioned in your string of notes the difficulties of your dog in the past and that she is food possesive. The prednisone increases the appetite for food ... she is simply being ore demanding for food as her body perceives it as a requirement. I know when I get sick or have a sick faily member on my hands, they become quite demanding and ... yes ... sometimes cranky. I would be very cautious of feeding any dog a raw food diet while still using prednisone. I suggust you consult a homeopatic vaterinarian to get a clear view if this is healthy. There are just way too much risk for transmission of infection in raw food. A healthy dog may be able to tolerate this and likely because of your dogs past he never ran into a problem. Evan though you take care in how you prepare the meal in your home keep in mind, it has gone through numerous unhygenic stages prior to it reaching you. I have done alot of research on buying dog food vs preparing food for dogs as I will soon be getting a puppy after losing my dog to Evans Syndrome ... most homeopathic veterinarians recommend a cooked balanced diet. They recommend altering the protein source weekly. As well adding vitamin supplements to replace the vitamins lost through cooking, and also providing the needed vitamins which the dog needs but would not get through either a raw or natural cooked diet. There is alot of science that has been put into commercial dog foods. I do beleive that if you do your research right and register to get dog food recall notifications that most dogs will be okay on these diets. If anyone decides to go the homemade route of either raw or homecooked, I suggest they have at least one consultation with a homeopathic veterinarian to get qualified advice.

Elaine canada

@Bev, if only I knew then what I know now. I am quite certain I would have done an even better job training Dylan's aggression out of her as I would not have made the initial mistakes I did make thanks to inexperience and bad advice. I have spent a lot of time training dogs and have even competed in the World Dog Agility Championsip with one of my Staffies. I am very proud of what Dylan has become, considering her beginning, abused, then wild and chased, fighting for survival while still a young pup. She could not go near any people or any dogs when I got her and she is good with most now. Under stress she reverts to her initial behavior and I accept that as I did a poor job 10 years ago at an early age when I could have had the most positive influence. I now specialize in training positively and I do a lot of behavior modification, fear desensitisation and performance dog training (part time) where I stress traininng with succcess and reward, building confidence and trust and a great relationship. I have no issues of any kind with any of my other dogs, but like I said, there are some things I did with Dylan on the advice of other trainers that I would never do today. I am sure they helped to cement her fear of people. If it was now, I could have done everything without fear and in fact would have built trust and confidence as I do in all the dogs I train. I alsow would have worked on the fear aggression specifically, but then I did not know what to do or how to do it. I do now! Despite her show of aggression to induce fear, she does love me and lets me do what I need to do. She never bites me and I have had my hands and arms fully in her mouth and even my neck on occasion in the past. I know her really well, she is afraid. She has always shown fear aggression in all stressful situations and that is strikingly easy to do with her. A hard poo, a poo hanging on a hair - traumatic. She once tripped over what we call "gamble tape" in dog agility (it is lighter than electrical tape by far) and yalped and ran away as though she had been hurt. Just raising your arms in the air (I have never hit her), or taking a step closer to her suddenly causes fear. She is doing fine thanks and only I will decide on how to handle her fear now (it is not rude behavior, undesired and not great, yes). What would I do to handle her "rude" behavior now anyways? Chastise her? Tell he she is bad? I don't let her get away with it and I ask her to stop and I take actions so she will stop and she does stop. What more is there? Richard

Richard Burnaby

@Elaine, you are plainly assuming I have not consulted anyone nor done any thinking on this it seams. I have spent 12 years researching dog diets and I have consulted many experts and other vetrinarians as well regarding diet. I recently weaned 2 of my puppies straight to raw (I always got my dogs after they had been fed puppy chow previously, or in Dylan's case, garbage - she was wild) after seeking alot's of advice. My vet is a wholistic vet and she does support my raw diet and has had patients of hers on raw diets fight AIHA while staying on the raw diet. I am considering alternatives though if I need to to protect her liver. I am also researching specific changes for dogs with liver issues. I am also very well aware of the potential risks in this diet (I have heard plenty of propaganda and fear mongering, but do appreciate that there is still real risk)and I am learning what I need to specifically for Dylan too. Many dogs do survive just fine on a carefully and thoughtfully prepared raw diet. Are there risks that are not there in cooked diets? Yes! Are there benefits that are not avaialable in cooked or pepared diets? Absolutely! Do I know what "Immune Compromised" means? Yes I do! Are there other issues to consider? Probably! I am doing my best on all counts, however. My dogs are all very healthy athletes, with the exception of Dylan. All are doing very well on a balanced raw diet and given Dylan's current recovery in her blood work, I am going to have to say even she must have been pretty healthy for such a strong recovery in her blood to occur so fast. Thaks again, Richard and Dylan

Richard Burnaby

@Elaine, I meant to specifically thank you for your comments on Dylan's aggression. I certainly think that due to her current physical condition and on such a high dose prednisone and given her history, tha she is doing just fine and in my opinion, is not being rude at all. I cannot imagine what she is ruly going trhough, but I am amzed at how good she is handluing it for such a fearful dog. You should have seen her fear when she was anemic and suddenly could not stand up. It was as though the world was upside down. Once I realized this, I calmed her until she would let me pick her up, which she did. Again, remembering where they are and with empathy, I can be of better assistance. Richard

Richard Burnaby

This thread was discussed between 12/04/2011 and 26/04/2011

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