Canine Autoimmune Hemolytic Anemia (AIHA & IMHA) - New thread for Cindi and Tori

Cindi, PCB, FL Our precious 8 year old miniture poodle, TORI has just returned home from the hospital due to the sudden onset of IMHA. My husband & I are trying to "digest" all this new life threatening effects for TORI and someone said it is like a roller coaster ride... Will tell the "story" later, but glad to find this forum, as we are rather overwhelmed seeing her so weak, lethargic and not wanting to eat...not even her favorite treats. Just learning how to minister the 7 medicines and times for dosages is enough for now and pray our little girl continues to be one that recovers. We feel for the rest of you, but we are encouraged by just reading a few of your posts. Thanks.

Brigitte BC Canada

Cindi, I am so sorry about Tori's diagnosis. I am glad however that you found this forum, because I know you will get lots of help and encouragement here. Please share Tori's story as soon as you can. We would love to hear Tori's "numbers" and what medications she is on. Make sure you get printouts from all lab results, so you can post them here. Please go to Joannes website: http://www.cloudnet.com/~jdickson/newhope.htm You will find lots of valuable information about the disease and hope and encouragement when you read the success stories. IMHA is a very serious disease, but many dogs have survived and are doing well. Keep us posted! Best wishes, Bigitte

Brigitte BC Canada

Cindi, So sorry to hear of your onset of IMHA with Tori. The good news is this can be beat. And you have found the best forum anywhere to help your family weave your way through this terrible disease. As Brigittie has said try to give us as much info as possible about Tori's meds. Everyone here is going through,or has been through this,and has a vast amount of experience and information that can help. Make sure you get as many of the vets reports as possible and relate the info to us here at the forum. Almost 18 months ago we were given the same sudden onset of IMHA that you are now facing and with the help of all the fantastic people here we are now drug free and full of life again. We wish for you and Tori the very best. Ron & Cooper

Ron L'land Fl.

I too am very sorry to read of Tori's diagnosis. Please let us know how much she weighs and the name of the medicine and dosage she is on. What was her last PCV result? If you can try to get copies of all her blood work and do as much research as you can as you will have to be Tori's voice and don't be afraid to make suggestions to your vet. Know that you are not alone and there really is hope. My Golden Ginger was diagnosed on 2007. Cheryl & Ginger

Cheryl & Ginger Pinevile Pa

Cindy, Sorry to read of Tori's diagnosis but you have come to a wonderful board for support. It will help you loads if you make a spread sheet so you can track meds and make note of everything you observe and learn. It is hard not to have your head spinning in the first few weeks so it is very helpful to have a place to keep track of things. Penny

Penny Lytle Creek Calif

Hi Cindi I was sorry to read about your dog. IMHA can be such a devastating disease but you have come to the right place for help and guidance. The folks on this board have been so helpful to me. My vet was not up to speed on this disease but this forum helped me understand what was happening to my dog and what questions to ask my vet. Eventually I consulted with Dr. Jean Dodds, in California, at the suggestion of the people on this board. That was the turn around point for my standard poodle and she is recovering well at this time. I encourage you to ask questions and be the voice for your dog, as she cannot speak for herself. This will be a very stressful time for you (we all know that) and we will help in every way possible. This disease CAN be beaten back, but it must be treated "appropriately". The people on this forum will help you ensure that your precious poodle gets the treatment she needs for a full recovery. Our thoughts and prayers are with you. Look forward to seeing the details on your dogs condition. Take care. Warm Regards, Maureen and Mercedes

Maureen BC Canada

Before sharing Tori's story, I had to get copies of her vet papers because some of you asked for the stats. This is a bit long, but her vet said she has a very complicated case. Tori has been free from any medical problems her whole life until a couple of weeks ago. She had gone for her wellness check-up July 26, 2010, fecal & heartworm exams and 6 mos bordetella vac. Everything was negative and although she had lost a little weight, she appeared fine. That is until Saturday night,July 31st when she got into my husband's suppliments. I caught her and David said she had eaten 7 Selenium 200mgs a tab and at least one CO-Q-10! Well the vet had previously told me if something like that happened to induce vomiting with a capful of Hydrogen Peroxide, which we did within no more than 15 minutes of the event. She threw-up the pills and all of her food,etc., plus 3 more times. Thinking we had intervened in time, we just watched her more closely for any signs of distress or sickness. We saw her becoming weaker and sleeping more, but it was 96 degrees and so humid that we thought it was the heat. Appetite and voiding-normal, but she wasn't wanting to play with her toys by Monday night, Aug 2. The next morning she didn't want to go up or down stairs and when she tried to jump into the car seat, she only could make it half-way as I caught her...this was 6 AM. I really got concerned because she didn't want to follow me, as she always did and by 10 AM I she was panting. I had noticed a cough the night before and she was very hot, rapid heart beat and when I opened her mouth...her gums were a grayish white. I knew she was going very sick and anemic, so I called the vet and rushed her there/hospitalized. August 2/3 Weight 8.5 lbs (Normal weight 9.8) HCT (PCV) 18.3% Blood auto-agglu/Blood sticking together/clotting Liver showed adnormal (toxicity) Treatment: .75cc cefazolin IV - 1 cc pet tinic - Normosol w/3cc Vit B - 10cc KCI Denamarin - Pet Tinic - Vit K -Heparin IV -Baytril 0.3 ml IV - Dexamethasone 3.6 mg IV Diagnois: IMHA ? as to cause Unregenative Anemia August 4 Weight 8.0 lbs PVC 10% After Tranfusion 19% Xrays of stomach showed a small metal ring/Heart-mild left atrial enlargement. Treatment: Continued meds - Whole Blood transfusion had to be stopped after edems of face/Diphenhydramine 0.15 ml August 5 PVC 25%AM/15%PM Xray showed metal ring moving through digestive system Prednisone added (can't make out the dosage) August 6 PVC 20.8% Reticuleyts improved 8.0% Tori was released and we came home with her and what felt like a "drug store"! 5 mg Prednisone 2xdaily 1 gm Sucralfate every 8 hours 1 90 mg tablet of Denamarin daily (recheck liver enzymes in 30 days) 0.3 cc Doxycycline 2xdaily 1 ML (dropper full) Pet Tinic 2xdaily 1/4 chewable Vit K tab a day They decided not to do the Aziothaprine as she is responding on the Prednsone. She also passed the metal ring Friday night. Final diagnosis: IMHA, secondary to infection and inflammation of metal object (which had been embedded near the esphogus) Prognoisis: Continue meds/PCV check every 4 days and will reduce amount of meds and Prednisone depending on blood work. Hopefully will be able to be med free. Last CPV check was yesterday August 6 and she was at 20.8% and regenerating her RBCs! Pink beginning to return in gums and energy is slowly coming back, yet tires easily after going to the bathroom outside. Her eyes are brighter and her personality is showing. We are so grateful for continued prayers and encouragement. So glad to have found you all! Praying for your pets, too.

Cindi PCB

Cindi, good call with the peroxide!!! I wouldn't think it was either of these injected meds that caused the anemia BUT I could be wrong. Selenium toxicity CAN cause anemia but this is from prolonged excessive selenium consumption over extended times. I'm not sure about a single large dose like this but it could be possible. Did she puke up ALL the pills? www.ehow.com/facts_5630732_benefits-selenium-dogs_.html Quote: "Never give more than 200 mg of selenium per day in larger breeds and no more than 100 mg per day for smaller dogs." According to this the levels you she likely would have injested would be OK IF she vomitted it all back up. Selenium however CAN affect thyroid conversion which may have been low to begin with so perhaps a FULL thyroid panel should be in the near future plans. Perhaps this stressfull moment of puking and owners being worried/stressed was enough to hasten the process??? I'd be more focused on the vaccination as a trigger. Did they run a wellness or blood panel on her before administering the vac? I always recomend one do this first...escpecially all of us here who have been through a sickness like this! Maybe her immune system was already copromised before the vaccination and the immune system getting bombbarded with the vac was likely too much for the body to handle. Any idea what the medal ring was made of??? Anywho, triggers aside...I can't help but wonder why they only gave dexamethasone iv to start WITHOUT starting on oral immune suppressants. Were they worried about the liver or somehting? Also, her crit (pcv) according to these numbers are dropping so this would have me worried enough to go back SOONER rather than later. I'd actually go today or tomorrow morning if I were you and ask for a FULL CBC and not just the PCV. If this was caused by toxicity then it's important to watch all the blood incices...especially the platelets. Also ask them to send out for a FULL thyroid panel. I'll almost put money on it that they will say it isn't needed OR the pred will skew the results. INSIST on it! In fact if I were you I'd send blood off to Dr. Dodds at Hemopet for analysis. you can get this done for fairly cheap if you are within the United Sates. I send from Canada and it is worth EVERY little penny!!! Others here can concur on this. If you want to know how let me know and I can help you through it. The only other thing that sticks out for me is the sucralfate dosage and frequency. 1gram every eight hrs is quite a large dose for suck a small dog. This can cause absorption issues for the drugs she is on!!! Get copies of all the bloodwork they ran so far. Is all they did was a PCV? You'd think they would have run a CBC (complete blood cell) test by now. Keep us informed. I'll keep her in my thoughts and prayers. Johnny Tessy & Sadie

Johnny

Johnny, Tess & Sadie~ They ran complete CBC tests every day, including after we brought her back for CBC on Monday. Just so much to write...I thought the PCV was all you were wanting. If you would like I can write out every thing on her tests the next time. Sorry, my mistake...Sucralfate is 1/2 tablet every 8 hours...1 gram a day. The metal ring had zinc or zinc alloy...very toxic in a stomach of a little dog. That's why they are giving her the Vit K and Denamarin, I think that is what they said. We were not sure she throw up every pill or better yet, if they had started to dissolve. The Boratella was liquid given through her nose. Not a shot vaccine. They were concerned about her liver...it was process of elimination at first. Her gums are pinker and energy is coming back today. We will ask about the thyroid Friday when she has her blood work. They will recheck liver enzymes in 3 weeks. They were relieved when they saw the "O" ring..rust and all. Hope this helps. Your questions will help us better communicate with the vet. We are encouraged but cautious right now. Thanks for sharing with us. It's hard to be the "voice" for Tori when this is so new to us. Blessings, Cindi

Cindi PCB

I really wanted to thank ALL of you for your welcome and good thoughts, ideas, suggestions and most of all prayers. Are relapses more dangerous than the initial on set of IMHA? That really has me concerned. Blessings, Cindi & Tori

Cindi & Tori

At this point Cindy, don't even think of relapses! Get your girl healthy and take it one day at a time. Best wishes, Brigitte & the poodle boys

Brigitte BC Canada

Cindy, I haven't gone on a web search yet but maybe Joanne or Patrice can answer this? I know that zinc can induce Anemia and I wonder if that makes it less of a problem once the zinc is removed? Hopefully things will be on the upswing soon. Keeping you and your girl in my thoughts and prayers.

Penny Lytle Creek Calif

Sorry to hear about Tori. You can try milk thistle to help her liver. Also feed smaller portions at a time. With all the medications, I have a little chart with dates so I don't get confused with the times and dosages and tick off the box once that particular medication is given. My Casper got the bordatella vaccine through the nose before he was diagnosed.

leslie ca

Here is the URL of a site on zinc induced hemolytic anemia that may be helpful: http://www.vet.uga.edu/vpp/clerk/hardy/ many more good sites can be found by goggling canine zinc induced hemolytic anemia there was another really good one I was fond of but I cannot seeem to find it nown

Joanne MN

Good news from the vet... Manual PCV was 30% There was and error on the CBC Mouth was pink and moist. Retic count up to 6.7% and the WBC decreased to 17,000 We are slowly cutting the dose of Prednisone Continue meds until finished, except Sucralfate while still on the Prednisone. She is wetting everywhere she lays, so I take her out every hour or so. Also, put a child's small "swimmy" (like pampers) and it works great. The Techs called her a little miracle. I just pray she continues to improve. Going back next Thrusday for manual PVC. Then in 2 weeks liver and CBC tests. Tori still tires (probably due to the prednisone), but follows me around more and is very curious and hears every sound to which she barks so I will hear it, too. So, sorry to hear about Jack and Tessy. Prayers are with you! Blessings, Cindi

Cindi & Tori PCB

Cindi, Great news! With the reduction of the prednisone, the lethargy and the wetting will get better, promise! Make sure Tori has cold clean water available all the time. Best wishes to you and Tori, the little miracle! Brigitte & the poodle boys

Brigitte BC Canada

Tori goes to the vet tomorrow for her CBC and liver profile. She has been doing better than expected, but I am very nervious that her PVC will not be as good because she seems a bit sluggish. Maybe I am just on "edge". Will report later. Praying for you and your dear pets.... Blessings, Cindi

Cindi & Tori PCB

Cindi: We hope Tori's results are good but remember - all dogs have good days and bad days and fluctuations in PCV are normal. And it takes time for them to recover and feel "100%" again. We will be keeping you in our thoughts and prayers and hoping for good news. Rita, Mike and Sheba

Rita IA

Cindi, I am so glad to hear that Tori is recovering! Zinc toxicity is a special type of anemia that is more common than one would think. This is a heavy metal and, though there is hemolysis of red blood cells, the initial anemia was caused by the zinc poisoning and not the immune system. Puppies, for example, have a tendency to pick up anything on the floor into their mouth. US pennies have significant zinc in them and so they are very dangerous. It is unfortunate that Tori found and ate a metal ring with zinc in it. It takes a quick thinking vet to take a diagnostic leap to considering zinc poisoning. You are lucky to have such a good vet. Besides the sudden and severe anemia, zinc is very corrosive to the stomach and stomach acid accelerates that process. Thus you were using pepcid to decrease stomach acid and sucralfate to heal any ulcers that might have developed. Removing the item from the stomach is the most important part of the treatment. You are so lucky that it just came out on its own! Unfortunately, kidney and liver failure are possible with zinc poisoning and it sounds like your vet administered the correct supportive treatment to prevent that. The secondary diagnosis, IMHA immune mediated hemolytic anemia, is directly related to the infection and in this case is different from autoimmune (AIHA) anemia because the cause is from the infection. I am optimistic that Tori will recover fully from this treatment! my best patrice

Patrice NYS

Thank you for your information and comments! I so appreciate it as we navigate through this. The report was mixed. Her PVC was 40%! WBC was 5.69, normal for the first time. RBC 5.13, but coming up! Retic normal. PLT 670, high but expected on Pred. Bad news is her liver showed ALKP raised a few points to 297 U/L and the ALT was too high at 215 U/L and she had been normal. She is not tolerating the Pred at high doses, so after 2 weeks on 7.5 mg everyother day, she will be on 5 mg everyother day. Continue taking the Demaraine once a day and the sucralfate on the days she takes the Pred. Two weeks another blood test and if the PVC count continues to be stable they will decrease the Pred. If the PVC dips the vet said we could use another drug and wean her slowly off the Pred. All-in-all, we are happy that Tori is more active and alert and will face each day with the hope we have gained from the success stories. Blessings, Cindi

Cindi & Tori PCB

Cindi, These values are not that high for the liver. They are not normal, but if there was no prior liver damage, this may recover fully. The denamarin is very important right now to treat this. How were the kidney values creatinine and BUN? This would be the other organ that might have been impacted. p

Patrice NYS

Cindi, Hoping for a full recovery soon!

Penny Lytle Creek Calif

Cindi, good to hear Tori is recovering. I'm with Patrice in that the liver numbers aren't overly high. Keep with the denamarin and keep an eye on them. Might help to give the meds with food if you aren't already. Might also be a fasting issue. How soon before the blood work did Tori eat? Maybe try fasting for 8+ hrs if you can before the next test. Now might be an appropriate time to ship a sample of blood off to a specialist (Dr. Dodds maybe??). That way you can get a full morphology and analysis done so you know right where you sit. Just a thought really. Many good thoughts and prayers coming to both of you. Johnny & Tessy

Johnny

Patrice, you mentioned Pepcid...what amount should a 9.8 lb dog have and how often? Tori is much more active today, running and jumping and playing fetch. Oh, how wonderful to see her so happy... Blessings, Cindi

Cindi & Tori PCB

Cindi, the recommended dose for dogs is 0.25 to 0.5 mg per pound (0.5 to 1.0 mg/kg) every 12 to 24 hours. I give Tori 5mg every 12 hrs. If it were me I'd get prilosec instead of pepcid...just a better product IMO. Dosage for prilosec (omeprazole) is the same as pepcid... 0.25 to 0.5 mg per pound (0.5 to 1.0 mg/kg) every 12 to 24 hours. Good luck. Johnny & Tessy

Johnny

Thanks, Johnny I think we will try the prilosec and thanks for the dosage. I can't believe so many dogs have this disease! Blessings, Cindi

Cindi & Tori PCB

Johnny & Patrice~ I started the Prilosec today. Cut the 20mg tab into 4 pieces. Figured that each piece would be 5mg. Is that correct? Thanks, Cindi

Cindi & Tori PCB

Sounds like it MIGHT be correct BUT you really have to be carefull with some drugs. Sometimes the medicine isn't distributed equally in some tabs. Usually tabs that aren't scored I don't usually trust and would usually call a pharmacist just to make sure. Tessy got 10mg daily and I had them specially compounded just for her. With these tabs I'm just not sure. Call a pharmacist just to make sure. You could also add sucralfate daily with no harm....just give it far away from the other meds...maybe before bed? Good luck and keep us posted. Johnny & Tessy

Johnny

Hi Cindi and Tori, you are the first Tori I have seen on the forum, we had a little cocker spanial named Tori, she and Meisha, Joanne's gal, were very early on this forum, which I found while sitting in the vet's office waiting to hear if our Tori would survive. Joanne lives not to far from us, she is south of the border, about a 6 hr. drive. I have been on and off this forum since 1992. Take care and give your Tori hug from angel Tori .

Bev canada

I have a question...Tori has thrown up 2 days ago and again today, yellow and now more orange in her dog food. Is this something that I need to talk to the vet about? I will call her vet if she does it again, as I am concerned. Thanks.

Cindi & Tori PCB

Got concerned, so I did call my vet and she said it could be pancretitis and let Tori "fast" for a day. That should clear it up, but wasn't concerned that it was IMHA connected. We shall see... Blessings, Cindi

Cindi & Tori PCB

What time of the day does she vomit? Is it only a morning thing or is it random? Bloodwork would be able to tell you if it was pancreatitis or not. Ask for only the lipase and amylase...one is double the other and both are high then it's pancreatitis (usually). Also with pancreatitis they'll withdraw from food....especially if it's severe. Good luck and keep us posted. Prayers and thoughts, Johnny & Tessy

Johnny

Johnny~ Tori fasted until noon because she had to take her sulfcrate and prednisone and she did not throw up all day, not since around noon yesterday. Thanks.

Cindi & Tori PBC

Hi Cindi One of my Standard Poodles just went through a bout of "pancreatitis". She had vomitting, and "extreme abdominal pain"! There are many other symptoms that can also ocurr--i.e. trembling, diarreha. A bloodtest will certainly confirm the diagnosis. If it is pancreatitis, diet is very important. High fat, high protein food should be avoided. We have no idea why my girl had this attack. Her diet is good, she does not get table food or treats. Has your vet given you any idea what has caused the inflamation in the pancreas?? We have no idea what caused Kalli's, but she seems to have recovered for now. Kalli does not have IMHA, however she is Addisonian, so she too is on prednisone as well as florinef. I read somewhere that dogs on long-term steroids can develop pancreatitis, but when I asked the vet about it he didn't really have any answer for that. I would be curious to hear what your vet felt was the cause, and if he thought that the steroids were a contributing factor. Maureen

Maureen BC Canada

Maureen~ We go to the vet on Friday, but I do give her chicken or cheese when I give her her meds. Maybe, too much fat/protein, but doing well again today. She takes 5 mg Pred everyother day, Hope your Kalli does better. Understand poodles are known to get IMHA more than some other breeds. Blessings, Cindi

Cindi & Tori PCB

Hi, Everyone! This was blood work up day and she dropped to 36, but everything was normal range,RBC stayed the same 5.13 and the WBC was a bit lower at 5.26. Giving her Pred 5 mg every third day and Sulfrcrate 2xaday when she takes the Pred. Still concerned about het liver, but wants her to finish second round of Demamarin and then do another liver profile. Mentioned a liver biopsy?!? Metal can cause live problems... Tori is happy-go-lucky, eating, drinking and generally good. But I am to watch her carefully, just in case she begins to slip. Praying she will not. Blessings, Cindi

Cindi & Tori PCB

Cindi, If it were me I wouldn't be concerned with the drop back to 36%. Several things can cause fluctuations in a crit. Tessy used to have this happen all the time....and still does actually. Common factors would include amounts of water drank the day of testing....dehydration can make the number higher or drinking lots of water can make it lower. The time of day the test was done...morning vs afternoon. Try to do tests always around the same time if possible. Even stress can cause minor fluctuations in crit...was she sittin in a waiting room stressed while waiting or did they take her to the back to do tests, etc. Sounds like you have everything covered and you're doing a great job. I'd also continue with the denamarin if the liver enzymes are high. Gotta get t hat liver healthy! Lots of thoughts and prayers for you both. Johnny & Tessy

Johnny

Thanks, Johnny! We are coninuing the Denamarin. She will get another CBC and Liver Profile in two weeks. I did get her blood work done in the PM this time and all other work has been done in the AM...could have made a difference. How is Miss Tessy doing? And you? Our prayers are going up daily for all the sick poochies! We must stay hopeful and upbeat, right? Our little ones can sense when something's wrong...Tori & I have that kind of bond...much like a I with my grown children. Blessings, C

Cindi & Tori PCB

Good news for Tori. She is holding her own with increase in PVC... once again 40%. Her WBC was elevated, thinking it due to pancreatitis, so her treats have been limited and only her senior dogfood allowed, plus senior greenies. The best news is that her liver is now back in normal range, as well as everything else except her creatintine was a little low... Still on 5mg of pred every 3 day with Sulfc on the day she take the pred and no more Denamarin. She goes to every 5th day for pred in another week, for 2 weeks and then another CBC. Tori is a very happy little girl and is back to jumping with "gusto". I thank GOD for continued improvement and try not to be paranoid about checking her gums to see how pink they are@!@!@! Thanks for your prayers and encouragement! You are all in my prayers, too! Blessings, Cindi

Cindi & Tori PCB

So good to hear things are still improving for Tori! I had a feeling the crit would bounce back up! Did they actually diagnose pancreatitis or are they assuming?? As always, continued thoughts and prayer to you both....and make sure she gets some hugs from me!!! Johnny & Tessy

Johnny

Thanks, Johnny! They suspect the pancrease, but no tests yet to confirm. It's just wonderful to see her so active and happy! She looks better than she had and that's scary to think she may have been sick for longer that we thought. Blessings to you and your doggies, you do have more than just Tess don't you? I thought somewhere I read that. Cindi

Cindi & Tori PCB

Great News at the vets today. Tori's PCV is at 45 and everything else is within NORMAL range! Except her protien which was a bit low, so she is now back on vitamins and Pet Tinic. We got to see the holistic/naturalist vet today and he was very pleased with her progress and wants to continue the every five days 5 mg Prednisone and will see her in 4 weeks. He explained that the pred works 2 days and she has been "on her own" for 3. It's better in his view, for her glands to kick -in on their own and he says she is handling it well. I sensed more optimism, but they are still cautious. What a relief to hear such a good report after all these weeks. I'm just to keep an eye out for any change...to be on top of the situation in case her body can't keep up. But no reduction in Pred at this time, because it's so low of a dose already. She is regaining her muscle tone, too. Still doesn't jump up as high as she once did and isn't ready for a marathon, but happy and becoming her independent self as before the IMHA. Praying for the rest of the doggie families! Blessings, Cindi

Cindi & Tori PCB

That's awesome to hear Cindi! I know what you're saying about it being a relief! I thought I'd never have that feeling with Tessy while she was battling this disease but sure enough it finally came! Sounds like you're doing everything right. Like you said...keep a good eye on her and don't push her too hard...it'll take time for the body to fully heal. If you notice things aren't right then head right to the vet for a check. Better to be safe than sorry...right. Give Tori lots of hugs and scritches for me. Johnny & Tessy

Johnny

Thank-you so much for sharing your story about Tori. I just discovered this site today. I am in the thick of it with my beautiful Cocker Spaniel, Gracie and Tori's recovery gives me hope that she can also have a full recovery.

Gwen Rhinebeck

It's so sad when one of our beloved dogs lose the battle with IMHA/AIHA. My heart goes out tothe owners... Tori will go in for her 4 week CBC after Thanksgiving. Her gums are pink and she is active and doing well. I must admit, I get a bit uptight when it's time to visit the vet. Guess this is normal. I have a friend who's dog is gravely ill. It could be this disease. Please pray for Porthos...he's a wonderful companion. Blessings, Cindi

Cindi & Tori PCB

Well, not the best report at the vets... Tori's PVC dropped to 36.2 from 44 after a month of Pred (2.5mg)every five days. WBC was normal, so improvement there. Also, RBC fell below normal at 5.16. Her MCHC was up to 5.16, but Vet said the Petinic is probably causing that. Decided to not change anything, but will check the blood in two weeks and if she drops again, then we will increase to 2.5 mg every 2 or 3 days. She is really on a very low dose and it just may not be enough...it's only been since Aug 1 that she was fighting for her life. Still staying focused on the positive. Thanks for your prayers, dear friends. Blessings, Cindi & Tori

Cindi PCB

Cindi, I don't want to scare you, but this drop is quite significant. If I would be in your shoes, I would check Tori's PCV sooner than in 2 weeks. This can be done very inexpensive and quick at the vets lab. If nothing else, it would give you peace of mind. There is a possibility, that there was a fluctuation in the PCV. Sometimes that happens, depending on if the dog was dehydrated, what time of day the blood was drawn, if the dog was stressed and on and on. But there is always the chance of a relapse and you want to catch that asap. Best wishes, Brigitte & the poodle boys

Brigitte BC Canada

Thanks, Brigitte! I'll take her in early if she shows any signs of slipping. After Pred yesterday, she is bright pink gums today. I always take her in early morning for the tests. It was also the day before she was to get her Pred. Blessings, Cindi

Cindi PCB

Folks, Tori began acting weird and seemed to be unstable, her rear legs seemed weak and she refused her treats (not at all like our girl). Thanks to Brigitte's concerning words, I took her in to have her PCV checked. It had RISEN to 40%. The vet suspected Pancreatisis, but not proven because there was no vomiting this time. Anyway, 24 hours later, today she woke up bright, alert and as if nothing had been wrong. Needless to say, we went out and bought the lowest fat% food and dry snacks we could find. She must really have a sensitive pancreas!!! But at least she did not have an IMHA relapse!!! We continue to thank GOD for her healing and rejoice with those have good news and cry with those that have bad news... Blessings, Cindi & Tori

Cindi PCB

What a blessing to find that Tori is doing well again. Continued thoughts and prayers to you both. Ronda and Buster

Ronda Illinois

Tomorrow I take Tori in for another blood test. Praying all goes well. Her PCV was 40% 2 weeks ago. Blessings, Cindi & Tori

Cindi PCB

Cindi, Great news! Hopefully you are through the bad parts. Keeping you in my thoughts and prayers. Penny

Penny Lytle Creek Calif

Thanks, Penny! Today the report is good. PVC 38% and no changes in the Prednisone...still 2.5 mg every five days. She is holding her own. No more bouts of Prancreatis now that we have changed all her treats to low fat/low protien. We are doing titers for her Parvo/Distemper and said should show her protected, but if her immune system has overall been compromised, she will only give her a half dose of Parvo but no distemper. Then titers every three years. Her Rabies isn't due until 2012 and they will do a titer on it then. Do not have to go back for 3 months, since I watch her so closely and stay in touch with any change that happens. They want to know quickly, so we can do a blood I am so happy our vet hospital is up on treating IMHA. And as so open to my questions, which I get from all of you. I don't think you know just how important this post/forum is! Praying all the ailing doggies and owners for hope and encouragement. Merry Christmas! Cindi & Tori

Cindi PCB

What a great present! We all know how very important this site is and Thank Joanne on a daily basis for creating it and her Meisha's Hope website. Without them we would all have been totally lost and dependent on some really bad advice from some vets. Glad that you have found an informed one that is also open to your input. Penny

Penny Lytle Creek Calif

Congrats on the good PCV Cindi. If it were me I'd do titers and regardless the count I'd still NEVER vaccinate...even half a dose!!! Just not worth the chance of having to deal with this sickness all over again. IMO these dogs will be immune compromised for the rest of their lives so introducing something like a vac is just not wise. I'll never vaccinate ANY of my dogs anymore! Anywho, give her lots of hugs and scritches for me. Happy Holidays Johnny & Tessy

Johnny

Cindi, I am with Johnny on this one, ask for a titer. If Tori shows no immunity you can still make the decision which risk is smaller, immunization or parvo. you could also visit a holistic vet and treat with nosodes when you think Tori was exposed. Congratulations on the good PCV, good luck and best wishes, Brigitte & the poodle boys

Brigitte BC Canada

Cindi, 38% PCV is wonderful! Congratulations. From my personal experience with Chance I would advise you not to booster parvo. Chance was a certified Therapy Dog through TDI. At that time they required all their dogs to get yearly boosters. (They no longer require this, as of last year.) But Chance had allergies and was receiving allergy shots. This exempted him from regular boosters, but they still required me to titer him every year. His parvo came in low every year and I had it boostered every year. I found out later from my research that parvo can appear to be low like this often, but yet can be at protective levels. Some references believe that the original puppy series probably confers life-long protection. I also found some evidence that this booster may not be particularly benign. None of this is conclusive, as most of this information about vaccinations is. Parvo is a serious disease, causing death mostly in young puppies living together. However an older dog that has never been vaccinated and is around young dogs with parvo might succumb to this as well. To be protective with an older dog that has been ill, like ours, the best approach is to avoid contact with the populations at risk for Parvo. Don't board your dogs, ever. Don't go to a home or kennel where there are very young puppies. If you do, wash your hands and shoes (clothes?) before entering your home again. Don't expose your older dog to young puppies, period. Parvo is a problematic vaccination and puppies sometimes have a hard time (due to the interference of the mother's antibodies) building immunity to parvo. Thus multiple boosters are required. This is where the original purpose of titering dogs came from, breeders looking for ways to determine if their puppy vaccinations were "taking." I occasionally hear about a breeder losing a whole litter of puppies suddenly, within 24 hours. Life had to change when Chance became ill and recovered. So I adapted. He no longer went to visit the nursing home. Unfortunately, older folks in nursing homes can harbor a very serious bacterial infection that can be passed to dogs. So be cautious about all social interactions with Tori from now on. my best patrice

Patrice NYS

Cindi, Thank-you for posting all of the information about Tori and the good news. I am glad Tori hasn't had any more bouts of pancreatitis. Gracie is suffering a bit today. Is Tori regularly groomed? Is that why you think she needs to be protected from Parvo? What about bordatella? I am afraid to ever have any vaccinations for Gracie but she is regularly groomed. Maybe I should try to groom her myself. I just don't know. It would be so sad to see our beloved fur babies slip backwards due to a vaccination. Many happy holidays to you. big hugs, Gwen and Gracie

Gwen Rhinebeck

Yes, Gwen Tori is groomed once a month, but when she was so sick our groomer would do her last after cleaning and disinfecting and all other pets were gone. She loves Tori, too and wants to do the best she can for her. She has had her Boratella, but not sure whether to continue it. Her titers came back "very high" and so she will not be getting Parvo/Distempter and will run another titer in 3 years. Our vet agrees with us to do the titers before any shots including Rabies which is due in 2012. The information on this thread has so helped me to research and better equip me to ask the right questions when we see the vet and get the PCV's and CBC work. Thanks, Patrice for the advise about socializing with other dogs. We now have her groomed early before others appoinments. We never board or kennel our girl, she has been crate trained for home and travel at night and when we must leave her alone. We have a motorhome and she even travels very well and has loved being in it with us. Right now, Tori's gums are a brighter pink and she is very actitive and alert. We take each day with joy and thanksgiving. The roller-coaster ride is not fun!!!!! Happy New Year, my friends! Blessings, Cindi & Tori

Cindi PCB

Cindi, I would certainly stay away from Bordatella vaccines! Especially since you never board Tori. Here is Dr. Dodds Vaccine schedule: http://www.weim.net/emberweims/Vaccine.html As you can see she does not recommend bordatella. For a dog with a history of AIHA I would not even think of it. I am so happy to hear Tori is doing and feeling better! Best wishes, Brigitte & the poodle boys

Brigitte BC Canada

This thread was discussed between 08/08/2010 and 29/12/2010

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