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Canine Autoimmune Hemolytic Anemia (AIHA & IMHA) - new pup arriving
| Well my new cocker spaniel puppy has arrived and he is now about 6 weeks old and I will be getting him mid August. In memory of Crosby we have decided to name the new puppy BING (thanks Kate Hudson for stealing our selected name ... lol). I hope naming him after a singer is not a premonition of a getting a vocal puppy. I have a couple of questions to ask. 1.) The breeders vet is one that does not seem to have alot of faith in Dr Dodds vaccine protocol and the puppy will be getting his first set of shots at 7 weeks of age (it was supposed to be done at 6 weeks but the breeder has an unavoidable trip scheduled and decided that it could be postponed the few days). Once I get the puppy at 10 weeks of age is there a way to safely switch this over to Dr Dodd's protocol without posing any danger to the puppy??? (I no longer have confidence in veterinarian's ... the emergency hospital where Crosby was cared for was very good but also very expensive (they charge $600.00 to have a dog neutered) rough with Crosby I discovered the vet I was using was horrible..................... When Crosby was sick and I needed advice they would not even let me speak withthe vet they wanted to get all the medical records faxed to them from emergency and then he would call me back even though I stressed it was an emergency ... they should have picked up the phone. They didn't even call me to see how he was doing as they didn't get the records ... Crosby passed away so quickly. It was only until a few days after Crosby passed that I got up the nerve to call them to give a piece of my mind ... I reminded the receptionist they are the the ones whom had been entrusted as Crosby's primary caregiver. I had gone to the emergency department recommended on their voicemail. They had a responsibility to follow through in some way. She said that she was going to tell the vet ... SURPRISE ... he never called. To say the least, I dont trust many vet's to put and my pets needs ahead of their pocketbook. I thought that I was going to go to a holistic vet as there is one in the city, however, he seems to stray maybe to far from convention.) 2.) My second question is at what age should thyroid testing commence and at what frequency???? Any assistance to these questions would be great as I want to ensure that BING gets the the proper level of annual care and when speaking with vets they all seem to be use the same catch-phrases such as Annual Health-Check and New Vaccine protocols ... but what they are saying doesn't add up ... there's no mention of titer testing and thyroid testing. Thanks for an anticipated response, |
| Elaine Ottawa |
| Elaine, When I got my new pup I sent an e-mail to Dr. Dodds with many of the same questions you have. I also threw in the question of when to neuter and what to feed. I put"not urgent"in the subject line. Unfortunately I don't have that e-mail anymore. She gave me short and precise answers about immunizing and titering for my dog specifically. She also took away my fear about taking a dog from the same breeder. I was lucky to have found a vet that understood my paranoia and was more than willing to work with me. I would suggest to keep looking, ask to talk to the vet before you go and bring your pup. Maybe you can find a vet that practices integrated medicine? Best wishes, Brigitte |
| Brigitte BC |
| Oh how exciting!!! I bet you can't wait! I LOVE the name... Great! IMO 7 weeks is still to young for vaccines. Several reasons....the mothers antibodies are still in the system (usully) at this age. These maternal antibodies will identify the new ones as invaders and destroy them before the immune system can kick in and make its own antibodies. Distemper can have side effects at 6-7 weeks and parvo is only effective in about 30% of dogs who get tehm at that age....meaning the first sets may not even be of benefit and could potentially be harmfull......all just so that the breeders can get the pups out sooner than later. IMO 9 weeks is best and only parvo/distemper/rabies is needed. YES YES YES you can switch over if you'd like. I know I would. I'm not sure about the age requirements for thyroid testing. Dr. Dodds would be the one to ask about this but i'd assume that the one year mark may be suitable. We're all here to help you after you get him....but only if we get to see pics of the little guy!!! :) Johnny & Tessy |
| Johnny |
| Elaine, First, I am so sorry that you went through such an awful experience with Crosby. I agree with Brigitte, keep looking! My dog was just diagnosed with IMHA 3 weeks ago, and our regular vets have worked beautifully with the specialists at the local University Teaching Hospital. I am able to speak to any of them with one phone call. Its interesting, too, throughout this that my regular vet is now thinking even harder about vaccine protocol and the use of titers. She already had reservations about that. In fact, I told her today that I no longer intend to give my other two adult dogs annual boosters automatically....we'll run titers to see if vaccines are definitely needed. She is on board with this, and that makes me happy. She's also researching doing the thyroid testing this week....more smiles! Print research out from online....tell the new docs your previous experience. I've told my vets that if Bentley doesn't survive this, I at least hope they can learn more from him, and help other pets down the road. Trying new things hopefully will help find the answers to preventing this awful condition in the future. I would email Dr. Dodds and ask her for the protocol she recommends on those tests, then speak with the vet you choose about timing as well. Best of luck to you and BING....LOVE his name :) Sally and Bentley |
| Sally Louisiana |
| Hi Elaine, You won't be able to undo what the breeder does. It sounds like he may already have 2 rounds of shots by the time you get him, but if you are lucky, only one maybe. Since I bred my own puppies 2 years ago (today is their 2nd Birthday), I could control everything including diet, weaned on raw food and my vaccinations (similar to Dr. Dodds’, but titer after one shot at 12 weeks showed sufficient antibodies for Parvo and Distemper). Unlike Dylan (AIHA 4 month anniversary today), who was vaccinated the old way, Stevie Ray (my pup’s mom) was vaccinated by the breeder once and then more specifically by us once more (only for Parvo and Distemper) before we began to titer. She is 7 and not been boosted except for Rabies, which is required when we travel outside the country to do Dog Agility, but even then it is only if we are travelling and every 3 years only (Finland required us to boost ). I hope Dr. Dodds and her group can show the Rabies vaccine is good for 7 years, or more. How they wean and feed and early vaccines cannot be undone, so unless you can convince them you will vaccinate and protect your dog responsibly, they will do it the way they always have. Some breeders are tough that way from my experience. Hopefully you can make sure the breeder does not use any flea meds at an early age on them and preferably are never used if you want to avoid AIHA and other conditions that may be associated with toxicity and toxic triggers. Please make sure that you talk to the breeder regarding not vaccinating if there is any sign of illness in the litter at all. Vaccinating while sick is never tested in vaccines. You can always do the best for them from that point forward, however. Change their diet to a good diet as soon as they are acclimatized to their new surroundings and titer first before you vaccinate. Avoid toxins going forward. This will all help reduce future risk. Finding a good veterinarian is often easiest with the help of other dog owners. I suggest asking around to find out if anyone knows a holistic vet. Many work with western techniques combined with other techniques for care (Chiro, acupuncture, message, etc), which have been of huge benefit to my dogs in the last 9 years. I wonder if Dr. Dodds works with anyone in Ontario, or Ottawa specifically, you could ask, as I know people out west who she does seminars for that can recommend good vets in their area. We made an effort back when Dylan was 2, because our current one at the time just seemed to like putting toxic chemicals in her all the time, at the same time, even when he vaccinated her (maybe that was the start of AIHA?). I needed to find one that believed in a raw food diet as well since I could not be fighting my vet over diet and that one is a deal breaker for me too. I am also very much against using flea and tick meds and have been for years now (none ever in Stevie Ray or her pups), so my vet needed to support that decision too. Maybe some people in some places are at higher levels of risk, but my dog’s diet and state of health keeps fleas away better than the stuff my breeder friends use, even when I am at their houses with my dogs. Regarding Hypothyroid testing, I seriously recommend getting Dr. Dodd’s book, as she suggests a lot more than just regular testing as a solution. She is very much about caring for your dog. In fact, I don’t recall her laying out any schedule for testing though and I have not found it on my quick look through (I will look again later and post it if I see one). She does state what tests should be performed and what can be expected for test results at different ages. She relies more on behavior, including any change in a dog’s disposition towards people or other dogs. Dog’s that suddenly become aggressive for little cause are most often likely to be suffering from a hypothyroid condition. She lists many other cases and signs that are indicative of low thyroid output to watch for. She suggests a journal to track them with. Tracking things like physical health, coat, weight, behavior, etc (she provides much more detail). She talks about healthy diet and things to watch out for like certain toxins in foods. She discusses the symptoms to watch out for and not just the ones all vets know, but a much broader list of problems associated to low thyroid output. It is a much more comprehensive view of caring for your dog. This will go well beyond the thyroid and help detect other problems sooner. Dylan’s hesitation to eat, her first symptom of AIHA, set off alarm bells here as she has not done so in 9 years. This is the kind of thing you notice and remember more easily with a journal. I wish you the best of luck with your new puppy, Bing is a great name (all mine are named after musicians). I hope you have a very long, healthy and happy life together :-) Richard (Dog Dylan, Stevie Ray and Double Trouble (Joey and Jimmi) |
| Richard Burnaby |
| Hi everyone: Thank you so much for the responses. I know the puppy will have his first shot at 7 weeks of age ... no changing that. The breeder has not let anyone except her immediate family near the home or the puppies. It's her policy as she doesn't want anyone to possibly bring something in with them ... especially if there is any chance they have walked near another breeder of possibly questionable standards. Once the puppies have been vaccinated than there can be visitors. I do respect that as Parvo from my undertsanding is horrible and the animal suffers greatly in a short amount of time ... and it is a very avoidable illness. A couple of months ago she said to me that her vet didn't agree with Dr Dodds opinions ... to me that was okay as everyone has a right to their opinion. I'll stick to my opinion that vaccines although necessary should be very limited. Heck, one of my close friend mothers just got an illness called Guillaume Barre syndrome over the winter after she had a flu shot. You have to weigh the pro's and con's ...this woman had no specific reason to get the flu shot as she was healthy and in her late 60's. The only reason I think she likely got the shot was because someone lumped her into the senior category because she is over 60. This woman is lucky to have survived and is now in a rehab centre getting intensive physical therapy ... the illness left her off as bad as someone whom has suffered a very severe stroke. Anyhow enough rambling ... everyone thank you very much for your advice and I will email Dr Dodd's for the first hand advice... I was just hesitant to take her precious time as it takes away from her maybe opening up that next urgent email an autoimmune crisis. |
| Elaine Ottawa |
| Hi Elaine, I hear so many horror stories from the side effects of vaccines, I find it hard to believe some Vets and Doctors still believe they are 100% safe. The flu only really has a chance of harming a small group of people, which is why I have to wonder why we go to so much trouble giving the vaccine to all of the poplulation for anything other than profit, especially when it is a crap shoot to see if they even make the right vaccine. It does not hurt them either that they are protected from lawsuits (doctors are not though and I think people should sue them for malpractice). In fact the law discourages testing them fully. Why bother spend money for nothing, just reduced profit. we already know big companies like tobacco companies and automakers calculate financial loss and do not consider death or injury as anything else more valuable so what would make me think the pharmaceutical companies are any different? They aren't and since there is no risk, there is no need to cut profits for "excessive" testing. They only need to appear as though they are being safe and that is easy to do, you just say you are and deny everything else. Simple human behavior that works. Yes, communicable diseases are at an all time low. Health conditions as a result of vacccine use are massive in number and include a long list of common conditions including allergies, which are rampant and a large number of very serious conditions. Rambling again too! Sorry, can't help it. Same way I feel about dog food and the propaganda used to support it. No evidence whatsoever. Both issues are cigarettes all over again to me (and I never did start smoking despite the poularity amongst my peers in school). Richard and Dylan |
| Richard Burnaby |
This thread was discussed between 20/07/2011 and 21/07/2011
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