Canine Autoimmune Hemolytic Anemia (AIHA & IMHA) - New Problem for Ginger

Ginger tore her ACL this weekend:( I am not sure what to do now, she had x-rays done on her knee and hips which are also bad too, arthritis bone on bone. My options are surgery for the ACL tear which I am not sure of because of her AIHA, bad hips and age of 11 1/2. Options two is give her pain meds ( 50mg of tram a dol twice daily) and rest to see if we can make her more comfortable but the tear will never repair itself. She is already on a Glucosamine & Chondroitin supplement and takes fish oil. Does anyone have any advise or suggestions to offer? Thanks Cheryl & Ginger

Cheryl

I have posted this for Cheryl. Note the variation of the word in regard to the pain med. I posted it this way because if you post the word as spelled correctly, you will be blocked as so many have been recently. I have unblocked Cheryl and hopefully she can post again. Please be careful and not post the T medication spelled correctly or you will be blocked.

Joanne MN

Hi Cheryl, Sorry to hear about Ginger's injury. This is a tough situation. Why don't you try the least invasive path with her (pain med and rest) and see how she does. An ACL surgery is very invasive with a long recovery. Also, I recommend reading the book, "Speaking for Spot" by Dr Nancy Kay. The book is about being a health avocate for your canine companion. It discusses how to make difficult medical decisions. Furhugs, Ella and Henri

Ella Seattle

(((Cheryl))) Sending loads of hugs your way! From everything i've ever heard about these injuries most opt for surgery and those who don't usually regret not doing so. A tear is a tear any way you look at it and any amount of PT, etc won't matter. I guess it depends on the degree of the tear though. Not to mention the autoimmune issue you have to deal with. You'd probably do well to add some supplements...glucosamine/chondroitin and osteo biflex knox nutrijoint (geletin) would be among the ones i'd add today. If you have steps then making a ramp would be advised as well. Going up/down steps is very hard on the injury. This is a time for complete rest and very very limited exercise. A diet change might be wise....depending on what Ginger eats currently. No grain! If it were me i'd get a FULL blood panel done and then decide from there what to do. How's she doing? Mobile? My thoughts and prayers are with you both! HUGS Johnny & Tessy

Johnny

Oh, forgot to say that you might want to pick up some valerian and rescue remedy to help keep her calmer. always good to have these on hand regardless.

Johnny

Cheryl, poor Ginger.It is extremely important to keep Ginger quiet. Jake my 14 year old lab tore his ACl 2 1/2 years ago. There is a lot of new information that says surgery is too often done when not needed for simple tears. So do your homework. And as Johnny suggested a full blood panel done. This will also help in what idrecetion you need to take. I opted no to surgery because of health issues and fretted over the decision. My vet said I did not need to make an immediate decision as he said it looked like a minor tear and we could see how he was healing in 4 weeks times. Sometimes I wish I did the surgery, he does have some stiffness/lameness. He is still able to get out of our inground pool, runs around a little bit. For me the biggest regret is not having physical therapy done to help with the healing, I think this would have helped tremendously. I met a dog massuese way after the fact and she said she had great recovery results with dogs both who had and had not had surgery. And a few months back the Whole dog journal had an excellant extensive article on the pros and cons of surgery. I highly recommend you go to their site and purhcase the article. I would copy it for you but they do not want this as they have no advertising and their newsletter is paid for soley by subscription and purchase of past articles. Here is another article on surgery or not http://www.tiggerpoz.com/ Laurie

Laurie CA

Cheryl, I am so sorry. There is nothing I can add to all the suggestions already made, since I have no knowledge or experience with torn ACLs. I just wanted you to know that I am thinking of you and Ginger. You might want to contact Patrice for advice, she is a physical therapist and as we all know very knowledgeable about AIHA. Best wishes and hugs to you and Ginger, Brigitte

Brigitte BC Canada

Cheryl, Poor Ginger. I don't have any suggestions but wanted you to know I am thinking and praying for both of you. Ginger has beaten worse odds before so hoping that she can overcome this obstacle too. Hugs Penny

Penny Lytle Creek Calif

Cheryl, Oh so sorry to hear this. Chance damaged his ACL, probably when he had so much muscle loss from the prednisone. Not much time today but I did plenty of research before I had his knee repaired. There is a big, huge difference in the surgery procedures for a small dog vs a large dog. A simple "figure 8 of a wire looping around the knee" surgery on a small dog will be very effective if the dog is not too active (no agility etc). A large dog can't survive with that surgery, the wire gets loose too quickly. I had to have a very expensive invasive surgery done on his knee. He was loosing muscle mass in that leg and walking was going to become difficult. It was very successful and his last year was on two good back legs. The surgery was very hard on him and I can't say it was good for his heart, though both the internist and the surgeon said there was no risk. I camped out inside of his kennel at the clinic for 3 days. Ha ha. The main consideration would be if there is actually a full tear or if it is only partially damaged. Do you know this? Often hard to diagnose to this degree, even with ultrasound. They could not tell me until after the surgery was over that it had only been a partial tear. Email me privately and I will send you the photos of the surgery. One final thought, generally once an acl goes on one knee, the other will quickly follow due to the imbalances of the gait. "la la The ankle connected to the knee bone the knee bone connected to the hip bone. la la" There are braces that you can use on a small dog that will work very effectively. If I had thought this would work really well on a large dog I would have done it. They are very expensive, but do the job. http://www.handicappedpets.com/www/help-pets-walk/dog-braces.html#orthotics my best patrice

Patrice NYS

Thanks so much for all your replies. I am at a total loss as to what to do, I personally do not think she would be strong enough to the surgery and with the condition of her hips I feel it maybe not worth the risks of the invasive surgery. Her blood work came back good and her vet is mailing me a copy. I am going to try acupuncture and getting some of the Bioflex that Johnny mentioned. The T drug does not seem to be working and she does seem to be in pain, but I am hoping with a few days of rest she will begin to feel a little better. The vet could not tell by the x-ray if the tear was a full or partial tear. I am hoping her other knee will be able to hold up and if not I may have to have the surgery done on both knees:( I think my goal now is just see if we can reduce the level of pain and keep her comfortable and then get her to an orthopedic doctor and get his opinion. Thanks again Cheryl & Ginger

Cheryl & Ginger Pineville PA

Cheryl, My mother had a smaller, older dog with the same problem and she used a brace (see Patrice's link above) with lots of success! Perhaps you may want to try that before you have to make a decision regarding surgery? It may give the stability Ginger needs without the risk of a procedure. Best wishes, Sharon

Sharon PA

the brace will immediately reduce the discomfort to some extent. there should be no weight bearing on this limb right now. you can't get a dog to use crutches so you need some other way to protect it. now that is something i can say with certainty from my pt training! p

Patrice NYS

A soft version (a little less expensive and a little more awkward to wear) A-TraC Dynamic Brace http://www.woundwear.com/pdf/A-TraC_Vet_Brochure_2005_low_res.pdf p

Patrice NYS

Oh no :( Sounds like you got a lot of good info ... my prayers are with Ginger right now. You're a great mommy and will make the best decision to make her comfortable ! Keep us posted xoxox Jacki :) and Gunner

jacki Phila

Cheryl, just checking in for an update on the beautiful Ginger! Hope she's healing in the right direction. Have you figured anything out yet? I've been thinking of her and have been sending positive healing vibes and prayers her way. HUGS for you! Johnny & Tessy

Johnny

Ginger update I found out it was complete tear (ugh) and her hips are bone on bone too according to the x-ray. I took her for acupuncture last night and she seemed to really enjoy that. Right now she is just getting plenty of rest, no stairs which means she has to spend her days in our rec room. I leave my other two dogs with her for company and spend lots of time with her. She is on the T drug and yucca and goes to the orthopedist Tuesday and we will see what he suggests, I really don't think she could handle the surgery or the recovery period with all her other problems so I am going to ask about a brace to stabilize knee until scar tissue can build up around it. My husband is checking into getting her a nice wagon ( the Gingermobile) so she can still go with us on our daily outings. I also ordered her a ruffwear harness to help her get up. Ginger seems perfectly content to lay by the front door and watch the world go by, she still loves to eat and seems to be in good spirits. I let you know what the othopedist says on Tuesday. Thanks for asking Johnny hugs to Tessy and your crew too. Cheryl & Ginger

Cheryl & Ginger Pinevile PA

Hi Cheryl, I am so sorry to hear that about Ginger's knee and hips. Poor darling, but she sounds like she's coping OK? How did you go with the orthopedist? Sam & Millie.

Samantha Geelong Australia

Gingers Orthopedic stated it was a partial tear and really seemed to push the surgery despite her AIHA, but he only meet Ginger for five minutes and did not really know her and I think the surgery and recovery period will be too much for her. So I decided after much research to order her a Stifle Knee Brace and she has to go tomorrow to be sedated and cast for the brace and yes I am very worried about the sedation. Once she gets the brace it will help stabilize the knee until scar tissue forms. Right now we are just keeping her quiet and Ginger is being a real trooper. I ordered a Houndabout dog stroller so she can go with us on our walks. I would have to say she is better then when she first tore the ACL so I am hoping this will work, I have heard it will take at least eight weeks and it has only been two. Thanks for asking. Cheryl & Ginger

Cheryl & Ginger

If she's getting sedated then that's a good time to have them do a good teeth cleaning!!! I had Tessy sedated already and had no problems! I'll be sayingsome extrathoughts and prayers for Ginger today! :) Johnny & Tessy

Johnny

Cheryl, Keeping you and ginger in my thoughts and prayers. Hopefully you will continue to see improvement. Hugs Penny

Penny Lytle Creek Calif

Cheryl - I'm thinking about you and that beautiful girl. Hope everything goes well tomorrow. Keep us updated. Hugs, Elizabeth

Elizabeth Baltimore

This thread was discussed between 26/04/2011 and 11/05/2011

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