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Canine Autoimmune Hemolytic Anemia (AIHA & IMHA) - More questions
| Hi everybody, this board has been such a great help, I don't know where i would be without it. I even went back to some of the archives to learn some more. Kahlu ( 2 1/2 year old red standard poodle)has been ill for 2 weeks now, diagnosed 10 days ago. He is doing alright, red counts rising, diarrhea a little better and as to be expected not much energy. I read about Milk Thistle to support the liver. Could that be given as preventative or would you wait until there is signs of liver problems? What about Calcium? I read somewhere that calcium depletion can become a problem. As for decreasing the prednisone ( I know we are far away from that) how long does a dog have to be stable before it should be considered? I made an interesting observation. Kahlu was always one to stretch a lot before his illness. I could even get him to bow on command. Now he does not stretch. Are his muscles sore? or does it take too much energy? Has anybody observed this? Thanks for taking the time, Brigitte and Kahlu,the couch potato |
| Brigitte BC |
| Hi Brigitte, My dog was diagnosed 3.5 weeks ago and all the questions you have raise are what i also want to know. Look forward to reading what people say. Madison also seems a bit weak in the legs - other than that she is really improving daily. I think the medication does do this to them. All she wants to do is eat and she constantly stiffs around the kitchen to see if anything has fallen on the floor that she can engulf!!! I have started taking her up to the corner and back as she is hanging to get out and about. Just a little walk outside make her very happy. Hopefully both our dogs keep improving and make a full recovery. Samantha |
| Samantha Australia |
| It is common to see then develop muscle weakness that often goes away when the steroids are stopped. AIHA itself is not painful, just very tiring from the low oxygen levels. A lot of people have started their dogs on the milk thistle to head off potenial problems others when they are showing problems. I don't know about the calcium depletion but I am sure others will chime in. Some people have had some pretty amusing stories about what their dog will find to eat including shoes. Hopefully both your dogs will be back to being the ones you remember soon! Penny |
| Penny Lytle Creek Calif |
| I know that Pred does cause muscle weakness and muscle wasting. Maybe this is why your dog doesn’t feel like stretching. Also muscle use requires a lot of energy and with AIHA there is very little energy to go around. The fewer red cells are doing all they can do to keep the vital organs working. I too had many questions about the milk thistle. I was mostly unsure about the dosage. It seems like milk thistle is a wonderful supplement for liver function. I read all I could about it on the web. One reason why I decided not to place my dog Ren on the milk thistle is she was taking so many medications already. I didn’t know if the thistle would interfere with blood values or in some way affect the other meds absorption, etc. From what I read, there are no adverse side effects to milk thistle. Just be careful of the dosage. I found it almost impossible to divide a capsule up for a dose for a Chihuahua. |
| Susie Delaware |
| Thanks Susie, I will ask the vet on Friday. At this point I will not put anything into my dog that is not approved by my vet. I will let you know what she says about the milk thistle. Brigitte |
| Brigitte Campbell River BC |
| Dear Brigitte, I am sorry that Kahlu is experiencing the beginning signs of prednisone side effects. Unfortunately, prednisone is a "necessary evil" in treating this condition. It does have some hefty side effects especially when used over longer periods of time. If you google "canine Cushing's Disease iatrogenic" you will come up with several websites that explain this very well. Iatrogenic means a disease condition cause by (in this case) high levels of corticosteroid drugs (prednisone). I wish there was some other way to go about treating this condition in the early stages, but right now it is the cornerstone medication to *save your dog's life.* Adding other immunosuppressive drugs to the "cocktail" will eventually allow you to slowly decrease the prednisone so that the side effects will go away. There are a number of drugs, the one we used was cyclosporine, and that drug saved Chance's life. To read more about the large number of side effects of prednisone try reading this well done artice: PREDNISONE, the good and the bad by Anne Jones RN, BSNE http://www.bichonhealth.org/HealthInfo/Prednisone.asp After several months of prednisone, Chance lost most of his muscle tissue and he was a bag of bones. It was a very sad sight to see this once beautiful Giant Schnauzer reduced to a ratty coat and no muscle tone. I am very pleased to tell you that most of his muscle has returned, he looks powerful and handsome. His coat is mostly black again and shiny. He is an old dog now, he just turned 11, but he looks much younger for his age. The prednisone did horrible things to his body, but it also saved his life. I hope you can take heart from my experiences and look forward to a better time for Kahlu. Milk thistle is very appropriate to protect the liver from the damaging effects of prednisone. Over the counter is fine but there are veterinary formulations of the essence of milk thistle: silymarin, that are better utilized by the body and are dosed properly for dogs. Ask your vet about Denosyl, Marin and Denamarin (last two also have Sam-e in them) I used Denamarin. If you continue to use milk thistle, the only caution would be to pulse dose it, or give it monday through friday with s and s off. This prevents the milk thistle from losing it's effectiveness. my best patrice |
| Patrice NYS |
| Thank you for all the valuable information Patrice! It is helpful to hear about all these drugs from somebody that has been through it all. It gives me hope and that is so important. I am learning something new on this board every day. Thanks again! Brigitte |
| Brigitte BC |
This thread was discussed between 04/02/2009 and 05/02/2009
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