Canine Autoimmune Hemolytic Anemia (AIHA & IMHA) - Maggie's 12/12 CBC results

Maggie, my 7 year old 80 lb yellow Lab continues to improve. Dec. 2 HCT was 31.8% reticulocytes were 107,000 Dec. 12 HCT is 35.2% Her reticulocytes are down to 1.4% and an absolute of 58 but she is still NET producing RBCs and my vet says normal is 10-110. Her alp liver enzyme is high at 1600 so we are going to further reduce her already low dose of prednisone. We are lowering Maggie's Pred from 20 mgs to 15 mgs daily. This Friday, Maggie goes in for an electro-cardiogram to see how her heart and lungs are healing from the PTE (clots) she threw while in the hospital. I have great hope that we will be able to cease the meds for pulmonary hypertension and congestive heart failure as her clinical signs have improved tremendously. She has started to chase squirrels and bunnies again. Her muscle tone has improved since she was discharged from the hospital on Nov. 21 as they all but eliminated her prednisone which they felt had contributed to her clotting. Her Cyclo and Aza prescription continues. For those still struggling, Maggie was once at a point where it was touch and go whether she'd survive. Now she is on track for a full recovery (or remission). So please keep fighting. Dogs can come back stronger than ever. Maggie and Robert

RobertN Superior

Maggie's vet at first suggested dropping her from 20 to 10 mgs a day on the prednisone. I told her that I wanted to be super cautious so we both agreed on 15 mgs once per day (mornings).

RobertN Superior

great report!!! way to go, remission is just around the corner. :)

charlie

Robert, What a great Christmas present. Hope you get great news friday. Penny

Penny Lytle Creek

Robert, seeing as how you are fast approaching the big R, remission -- i wanted to throw a couple of questions your way, i am going to ask my vet on monday at our check up but i have noticed some unusual things -- we have be in "remission" for almost a month now, all drugs stopped. Not only has shedding and toenail growth returned (it stopped with all the drugs) training from pre disease seems erased. do they suffer brain damage regarding memory with this disease. the truly happy dog is back with the same personality but simple things like not jumping up on the kids or shredding shoes -- things he had been taught not to do have returned as if he knew no better. it is not a big deal and we are all hesitant to repremand him as we are just so thankful he is better......any thoughts??

charlie

Maggie as she has continued to feel better, has started to do naughty things as well. She knows better and looks guilty afterwards but I would not attribute it to brain damage. Rather, its just new energy and sometimes frustration being expressed. Maggie was used to having me around at all hours and now I head off to work and while she has someone peak in on her and give her her pills, she no longer has round the clock attention. Last week, I left the cupboard door where I keep the trash ajar, and she spread it throughout my apartment. She also pulled a bunch of things off a shelf and yesterday she tore apart half a candle. I hate the word "remission". While I'm aware that there could be a relapse, I do have a pretty good idea of what caused Maggie's IMHA. She got out on her own last spring and ended up in doggie jail - the Humane society. They gave her a bunch of vaccines, even though she had just been vaccinated. Another good possibility is that some exterminators sprayed inside my apartment to kill off an earwig infestation. Maggie could have eaten an infected insect or spider. I believe that if we avoid similar circumstance, she has a decent chance of avoiding a recurrence of IMHA. Her vet is calling it a "recovery" so that's what I'm calling it.

RobertN Superior

Charlie, Joie de vivre. Joy of life. I would say this is simply feeling better and doing things that are fun. When Chance was young I would complain all the time to my husband when he would pull me on walks. There wasn't a day that went by that my powerful and beautiful Giant Schnauzer didn't "ask" me if I wouldn't like him to take over control at home. LOL. Mark told me don't worry, one day he will not be able to pull. Well, that day came when he became really ill and I could not wait for him to begin pulling me again. I will never forget the first day during his recovery that he decided it was time to take that first walk around the block. We had not done that in 6 months! Dog's don't know that they misbehave, they have no moral standard like we do. To them it's whatever makes them feel good, they do it. As owners we learn to replace those unwanted behaviors with other behaviors that we like (that they also like!) Discipline waivers when we let our guard down and allow some of those unwanted behaviors to creep back in. This has been studied in an area of psychology called operant conditioning. It sounds fancy but this is how we learn (and our dogs too) all day long, every day. A good example for humans is the vending machine. We put our money in and nothing comes out. We have "learned" (have been rewarded) that banging the machine sometimes loosens the desired candy. So we bang on the machine and we may get very aggressive about doing this. If the candy falls we are positively rewarded and will repeat that behavior next time if the candy gets stuck. (The behavior becomes stronger) If the candy does not fall, we bang harder and we may even recruit others to shake the machine! So the behavior INCREASES. It takes a lot longer for us to "extinguish" the behavior if it has worked *just once* in the past than if it never worked. The same process works with a dog. If a dog being housetrained discovers they can safely relieve themselves under the dining room table on the fancy carpet without any interference from the owner, that will increase that behavior (positive reinforcement). It's not that they are being bad, they are being rewarded by completing the activity safely and if feels good to relieve a full bladder! If the owner finds this mess later, after the fact, and then punishes the dog, the dog only knows that their owner is acting very strange and it is not safe to be with them at that moment. They cannot connect the act of peeing on the carpet 20 min ago and your anger. And in fact, being able to safely relieve themselves on the dining room carpet will be a very strong behavior, even for a lifetime, because it has been positively rewarded so many times. The best approach is never to let them do it in the first place because extinguishing that behavior later is MUCH HARDER! So the best bet now is to return to some level of discipline. If your once very sick dog was allowed run of the house because you were so worried about them but is now abusing this privilege, go back to restricting their ability to get into trouble. Add in more walking to relieve the built up energy and even add some mind games in for stimulation. Teach a new trick or re-teach old ones. Give them good activities to replace the bad stuff. Eventually the bad stuff will extinguish, it just takes a long time. my best patrice

Patrice NYS

Patrice, I've read some recent articles that suggest dogs do have a simple idea of right and wrong and engage in deception in a manner that suggests that they understand other dogs and humans as separate creatures with our own perception and agendas. Their perception is not exactly the same as ours, but being social creatures, they have adapted to conform to the norms within a given pack. They look to us as pack leaders to set the example and lead. I love articles the suggest dogs do have higher emotions and that they are the sensitive, intelligent creatures we know them to be. That's not to say that we anthropomorphize them, just that we (dogs and caregivers) have areas of common interest and understanding and its not just the humans working to understand and communicate with the dog, but that its a two-way street. All I have to do is look in the general vicinity of where mischief took place and Maggie will cower. I've never raised a hand or inappropriately (ie corporally) addressed 'naughtiness' ie. and only respond if I catch her right as it occurs. The only time I address behavior occurs when I catch her on the spot and send her in the other room, which can be done with simple body language and a gesture such as snapping my fingers and pointing. On some occasions where Maggie has gotten into the trash, upon me returning home she has rushed out the door; been very reluctant to go back inside; holding back and wagging her tail as if to encourage me to take her on a walk that instant. As soon as we get back inside, she becomes immediately submissive and when I notice a mess or any destruction, she actually puts herself in "time out". I must say that I am thrilled to see her engaging in antics that demonstrate her recovering health, even at the expense of a carpet, candles, or any other items she can reach, so long as it is not harmful to her. I am smiling about this even as I write this post.

RobertN Superior

Robert, I have a totally fail proof solution for anybody who has a dog getting into the trash or peeing in the house! I raised MANY dogs with this method. If you see the dog has eliminated or made a mess of the trash, get a newspaper, roll it up tightly and...... hit YOURSELF over the head saying: I did not watch the puppy, I did not watch the puppy. I have been told that it also works with banging your head against the wall using the same words:) I am so happy that Maggie is feeling better and wish you the best of luck! Brigitte & the poodle boys

Brigitte BC

Robert, You will love reading my favorite book, Man Meets Dog. It was written by a German behaviorist, Konrad Lorenz. I have read it so many times in the past 40 years that I nearly know the words by heart. Konrad Lorenz is best known as the scientist who demonstrated "imprinting" on a young family of ducklings. He bucked the current ideas about animal behavior at the time and demonstrated through his research that animals can be unique individuals with the ability to ponder certain aspects of their environment and their relationship to it. I have taken to heart all that Lorenz believed in so many years ago. I have read just about every book available on canine behavior and I know that there are many subsets of thought about what dogs can really understand. The book that most explained the concept of operant conditioning was first published in the '70s and was titled Please Don't Shoot the Dog. Karen Pryor's husband opened a seapark in Hawaii in the 60's and wanted to have trained seals etc for acts. Karen fell into this operant conditioning training nearly by accident but was so successful training whales to "kiss" that other trainers were amazed. She was so successful training these sea creatures that eventually she went on to develop training programs for dog owners. You will know this as clicker training which bases the training solely on the concepts of operant conditioning. Regardless of what may be really be going on in the dog's mind, Karen finally had it scientifically proven that dogs' brains respond differently (and far more easily and successfully) to clicker training (operant conditioning) than to any other form of training. They are hardwired to learn this way because it is the best way to cope with a constantly changing environment (and thus, allows them to avoid danger and be successful.) And Karen's clicker training has been now used in many different applications, not only to train dogs and other animals but it has become a very successful training tool for humans as well. One application is most bizarre. Teaching young gymnasts to "get the movement correct." Corporations use operant conditioning with a form of clicker training to work with their employees. My other favorite book is The Culture Clash written by Jean Donaldson. While the book suffers some from poor editing, it is well worth the effort to read this. It totally changed my philosophy about training my own dog. It is not a training guide. It is a guide to understanding, really understanding, the way a dog thinks and how poorly we humans communicate with them. It strengthened my relationship with Chance when I felt that our training program had become hopeless. I was able to take a wild, out of control, Giant Schnauzer and trained him so successfully that he was able to obtain his Therapy Dog International certification. He visited the local town nursing home weekly with me for 9 years. I was warned by the local TDI organization that they had never certified a dog like him before (big, black and of a working breed known for guarding) so I should be on my toes. What I found was a dog that completely understood what he was doing when he walked in that door. It never ceased to amaze me how seriously he took his job and then would come home and try his hijinks on me when off duty. What a character. I really miss him my best patrice

Patrice NYS

how fun to read these stories, i was so sadden to hear of bailey's passing but being able to smile at the naughty dog stories is good medicine, i too think i will start using recovery instead of remission. I agree about the guilt thing, most of the time the face tells me about the mischief before i actually find it ... i found a butcher bone that probably weighs 10 pounds that has kept the newly naughty dog good for a bit -- he has so many allergies that the toys and treats we can give him are limited, this was a good find!! Happy Thursday to everyone!

charlie

Just bumping this thread as an older thread of mine, titled "Setback" was moved over it causing confusion. I responded to the question in the thread and invite others to do so if they have any insight. Maggie continues to do great on her path to a full recovery!

RobertN Superior

Maggie had a followup electrocardiogram Friday to check on the pulmonary hyper tension and the congestive heart failure that she developed from the pulmonary embolisms she threw that nearly took her away from me mid-November.... Great news, her heart looks great, back to normal and she is off the meds for congestive heart failure and we are slowly weening her off the meds for pulmonary hypertension. So while we continue the cyclo and aza, Maggie is at a diminished management dose of pred, and we are getting her off the heart meds. She continues to do very well, happy and playful with increased muscle tone and coordination.

RobertN Superior

Wonderful Robert! good job on your and Maggie's part. what more could you ask for that continuous improvement. best wishes, Brigitte

Brigitte BC

This thread was discussed between 13/12/2011 and 17/12/2011

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