Canine Autoimmune Hemolytic Anemia (AIHA & IMHA) - Liver trouble

Cookie's blood test results came back, and we got them by phone so I don't know what the values are but they didn't mention glucose so I think she's not diabetic. However, they said her liver enzymes are climbing and we're going to have to make some adjustments. I went out to Pharmca and bought a liver supplement. I checked online ahead of time on rxlist to see if there were any drug reactions and I didn't find anything, but I wanted to know what other people thought if I should give it to her or just use plain milkthistle. There is 50mg of milkthistle in her vitamins but obviously that's not enough. Here it is, http://www.pharmaca.com/Liver-Support-and-Detoxification/Jarrow-Formulas-Liver-PF-90-Tabs/468502/5004-5591/Product Also, does anyone have any other recommendations, such as diet? I know about Dodd's liver cleansing diet but Cookie won't eat potatoes so I don't think it'd work for us.

Monet Sammamish

The vet called not too long ago after having spoken with the internists at the specialty center. The vet that they spoke to wants Cookie weaned off the prednisone very quickly. This was the vet that I had originally seen and she wanted her to decrease after the first week, the second vet that our clinic consulted with said after she reached 35% PCV and I was quite comfortable with that, but this other doctor says she will decrease as long as Cookie is above 30%, despite the fact that Cookie has been dropping for the past couple weeks (she is at 33%, down from 34% last week and 38% the previous week) and now we are supposed to go down to 20mg/day pred from 30mg/day. I understand that it is important to wean off because of the liver damage, but at the same time I don't want her to relapse because it's being rushed. Any thoughts?

Monet Sammamish

And does anyone have experience with prednisolone? It looks like this is a better option for her liver health than prednisone but I haven't seen it mentioned.

Monet Sammamish

Monet, I have seen lots of dogs on prednisolone even though the majority of vets prescribe prednisone. Prednisolone is created when prednisone is metabolized by the liver. Because of this, prednisolone is generally considered easier to absorb than prednisone. Prednisolone is also preferred over prednisone for dogs with liver conditions. Read more: The Difference Between Prednisolone and Prednisone for Dogs - VetInfo http://www.vetinfo.com/difference-prednisolone-prednisone.html

Joanne MN

Monet, My dog Beau had to be quickly weaned from the prednisone as well because of increased liver enzymes. To give you an idea of how bad the enzymes were - his alk phos was at 11,953 - a new record for the animal hospital! I'm not going to lie -- it was VERY scary to wean him so quickly, but under the watchful eye of the specialist it was done. And as the weeks went on and the prednisone was decreased, his PCV increased. (And the alk phos is now down to 1,600 - still high but much improved!) Each week when we returned to the specialist he would almost chuckle because he knew he was going to tell me about another drastic reduction and I would panic! So, hang in there! Just keep a very watchful eye -- and I know you will -- for anything going on that doesn't seem right. I really didn't change Beau's diet during this time. I gave him milk thistle and pet tinic; the specialist said I could continue these although he didn't really feel it made a difference -- it made me feel better! Hoping for a quick reduction with great results! Sharon

Sharon PA

Hi! All of this scares me as when they start weening Lucky from any of her Medications she deteriorates Quickly. We're in a, Danged if we do and Danged if we don't situation. The Prednisone and Liver Enzymes has me really worried now. I will be questioning the Doctors tomorrow. Question, What is milk Thistle, what is it used for and where do we get it? We took Lucky to a Holistic Vet, but not even that was helping her. We can't give up as long as she has life in her.

Kathy Crestline

Milk Thistle is an herb that is good for liver health. Prednisone destroys the liver with the longterm/high doses so they need protection and Cookie's trouble is I believe because she was only getting 50mg of milkthistle a day. You can get it at any health store, probably regular drug stores too. The supplement I got includes all the right B vitamins for this disease as well (at very high doses, but it is impossible to OD on those vitamins because the excess gets excreted in their urine) Now I don't know if her PCV has changed since starting it, but I 100% believe that her gums look better and her energy is up, despite the fact that we dropped to 20mg/day of pred.

Monet Sammamish

Thank You so Much. We will get the Milk Thistle with B's like you suggested. We will go to the health store tomorrow morning. We have a Handicapped son with a lot of complications so I am a recluse until every other Weekend. I will hit the store as soon as they open in the morning. Thank you again and may your little baby continue improving. Hope you have a nice weekend. The best to you Both!

Kathy Crestline

I think most people use pet tinic to get the B vitamins. This can be obtained from the vet. Most milk thistle supplements don't have B vitamins, the one I got actually has a lot more in it and I haven't discussed it with a vet, so I shouldn't endorse it. ***But definitely use something with B vitamins, whether pet tinic or something else, as the two symptoms of low B6 for dogs are seizures and anemia! B1 deficieny may cause seizures, and B9(aka Folic Acid)/B2 deficiencies can cause anemia. Look here to learn more: http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=vitamins

Monet Sammamish

Sammamish, THANK YOU SO MUCH! You have given us So much hope. Lucky goes in tomorrow and we will sure hit her doctors up with this. She is only on 1/2 childrens vitamin. Sounds like her problem could be that she is lacking vitamins? We will try everything! Thank You again.....

Kathy Crestline

Thank you so much! Lucky started on Vitamin B's. The vet said that it sure wouldn't hurt her. She is having another Complete blood panel done in the morning. She just laid around today but the heat here is terrible. She's always hot. Thank you for answering my questions. We will ask about the Milk Thistle in the morning. Good Luck to Cookie.....

Kathy Crestline

Thank you Kathy. Cookie is doing super good today (very perky) not sure if it is from reducing the pred or from giving the liver supplement, perhaps both? I am just so thankful that she is alive. Even though she was dying just a month and a half ago, and was struck with blindness, she still has the same spirit and we're just waiting for it to fully blossom again. I love my girl more than anything in the world.

Monet Sammamish

Yay Cookie, Continue improving! The prednisone scares me as Lucky has been on high doses since Dec. 2010. I'm sorry about Cookies Blindness. Poor baby! She's so Lucky to have you. The Love keeps giving them the strong will to survive. I am pacing right now as My Husband and our Daughter took Lucky to her vets this morning. They are doing a whole panel on her at our request. I Thank everyone for the advice. She had her second dose of vitamin B's this morning. I wouldn't have known about these things if it weren't for this site. I Thank God that I found it. I used to cry alone, Now I see that we all cry together. I know what it is like to Love our Babies so much. They do add enjoyment to our lives, that certain Void. They are the Best, Most Faithful Friend that we could ever have. Please let us know how Cookie is. Just got the phoine call from Hubby, She's down to a 16. We can't get her back up. Gotta go Cry now.... Have a good weekend!

Kathy Crestline

Have you asked the vet about adding Denamarin to the mix? This will help the liver to heal. B vitamins will do little for the liver but will aid in the blood making process in the bone marrow. OR....if you want to you can just use milk thistle and Sam-E. How's Cookie doing lately? My thoughts and prayers are with you both. Johnny & Tessy

Johnny

Cookie is still well. Today we walked further than we have in quite a while. I also got her to run a few feet (her blindness took away a lot of her confidence & she would just walk slowly behind me for short distances) Unfortunately, she is one of the happiest, most active sick dogs (the night before her transfusion when she was at 15%, she was still running to the door barking if someone approached!) so it is possible that it is false hope. But, she's still looking very pink! And, I have figured out how to get her dinner. Before it was the same as breakfast (dry+tripe+pumpkin). She would only take a couple bites at a time, but I learned she won't eat pumpkin with her dinner so now she eats it all.

Monet Sammamish

Who says blindness is permanent? Would like to announce that Cookie seems to be able to see again!! It seems like it must've been a side effect of high-dose prednisone. Last summer, we tried to add to the family with a second dog. She was a 3-mo old puppy that was blind/deaf due to brain damage from lack of oxygen after a reaction to anesthesia during her spay. Well, after a couple weeks into the adoption she was also able to see! (but, her energy became too much... when we got her she slept all day, that quickly changed) Total believer in reversing blindness!

Monet Sammamish

Monet, Sounds like Cookie is doing well!!! I'm so happy that her sight has improved! GO COOKIE!!!! Sally and Bentley

Sally Louisiana

Cookie is wanting to go outside a lot this morning. Thought it was stomach problems but she's actually appearing to have trouble urinating. Also, her appetite is gone down a little and she's walking a little funny. Her energy is fine. We just had a urinalysis a week and a half ago and nothing except glucose and concentration were off. Could it be stones? Does anyone have experience with stones?

Monet Sammamish

THOUGHT it was a bladder issue... let her out again and she didn't try to pee but instead had bloody diarrhea?? She pooped in the garage overnight and it was solid. Up to date on all vaccines and she hasn't been around other dogs but we did go to the pet store yesterday (but she was the only dog there). Her energy is fine and her gums are fine but like I mentioned before she didn't eat much (only the tripe that I topped her food with)

Monet Sammamish

Monet, I think Cookie has probably irritated bowels from all the medication. Is she on Sucralfate or Carafate? Sorry i forgot you medication protocol. in any event, I would certainly take her into the vet. Just for good measures, since you said she had problems urinating (straining?) I would get a urine analysis. They are very common in dogs with a compromised immune system. Best wishes, Brigitte

Brigitte BC Canada

This thread was discussed between 01/09/2011 and 07/09/2011

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