Canine Autoimmune Hemolytic Anemia (AIHA & IMHA) - Lindy survies a Chow attack.

Hi, I have been away for awhile. When remission takes hold, I had a difficult time dealing with the tragic losses on here. I didn't mean to turn my back on anyone. Life has been good for Lindy. She takes 25mg of Azathioprine EOD and AIHA was kept at bay. Today I took her for a walk to the park. She's walking now and the stroller is packed away in the basement. We were a block and a half from home when out of no where comes a huge orange colored Chow right for Lindy. I was pulling her towards me and just before I reached her, the collar slips over her head. I started screaming and then the Chow was on top of her and the last glimpse was of her rolling on her back. I kept screaming and started kicking at the Chow, as his head bobbed up and down. A man was working on his car just around the corner but never came to help. I just kept screaming and kicking at the dog and he suddenly backed off. Lindy was trying to get up, so I scopped her up and kept yelling at the dog until it finally retreated. I kept feeling for blood, but there was none. I was crying, shaking and still in shock when we got home. My husband and I both looked her over and she seemed okay, so I called Animal Control and they sent someone right out. He asked if we were both okay and I told him that we were. After he left to try to find the Chow, I noticed Lindy wasn't walking on her left front leg. That was when I noticed blood at her armpit. I called the local vet and the receptionist told me everyone was out to lunch, but to bring her up and she would be looked at in an hour or so. I told her that wouldn't do. There was a big staff change last fall, so they don't know us at the front desk. Anyway, we finally got in to see Dr. Houchins and so we headed to the office. He said there are typically two wounds, but all he could find was one.

Nancy CO

Nancy -- What a terrible incident for you and for Lindy!! I can't imagine what it was like for you to see your sweet girl, whose health is fraught with some uncertainty, under attack for no other reason other than to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. I hope Lindy's wounds are not serious and that this doesn't trigger any setbacks with her IMHA. Please take care. I'll keep you in my thoughts and prayers.

Brenda VA

How frightening! I'm so sorry that Lindy had to endure such a terrible attack. I'm sure that she will show the same resilience to this attack that she did with her IMHA, please keep us posted. melissa and tiggs

melissa slc

Hi Nancy, I hope Lindy is alright. I haven't been here for awhile either, but my dog Cali wasn't as lucky. We lost her last June at the age of 5. We adopted a Catahoula Australian Shepard puppy in late August to go along with our 10 yr. old (now 11) Sheltie Chow mix. We went on a lot of walks this fall & I couldn't believe how many dogs we came across that were unleashed or just loose. Many times the owners were near by, but it only takes a second. A St. Bernard knock my older dog down & it was extremely scary. He was the size of a small horse. Another Jack Russell tried getting my puppy & he had an electronic fence. Those things are worthless if you have an aggressive dog. The worse part was when I picked Laci up to protect her, I was also holding a full poop bag. Needless to say it broke in the chaos & it was a long walk home. IMHA is a terrible thing for a dog owner to go through. People need to be more responsible with their dogs so they don't cause harm to other dogs or people.

Dee WI

Nancy, How terrible for you and Lindy. I want to come down there and kick that man that didn't help you in the butt. I am always envious when I see people walking their dogs. We have 4 so that makes it awkward at best but people in our neighborhood seem to think dogs should run free so it is not worth it to take the chance of what you just went through. Hopefully there will be no problems and Lindy will be up and around soon. Keep us posted. Penny

Penny Lytle Creek Calif

Hi everyone, Thanks for your concern. I tried to finish the story, but got banned from trying to post again.. Thanks Joanne for taking care of letting me back on. Anyway, Lindy had a puncture wound above her leg in her chest area. She had a pain shot and is on antibiotics. The last two days, she was very quiet and other than still wanting to eat, she wasn't herself. Today she is back to her usual perky self. I always have been concerned when we walk, but now I am totally paranoid. I was in such a daze the rest of Monday and stayed awake to keep an eye on Lindy Monday night. The vet wanted to see her, again, early Tuesday, to shave the area. The Chow must be missing some teeth, as there was only one tooth mark. I'm waiting for a call back from animal control to see what they found out. Beings Lindy has not been vaccinated since 2004, should I be worried about what this dog had in its saliva, which is now in Lindy? I didn't think to mention this to the vet yesterday. I'm sorry that you lost your beloved Cali, Dee. My heart really does ache for you. Oh I know what you mean about the poop bag thing. I would have had one, except I had tossed it in the trash can at the park. Lindy's color is still nice and pink. I still do the ear and gum check frequently. I am praying that this trauma won't impact her AIHA. Nancy and Lindy

Nancy CO

Nancy, This is a dreadfully complicated situation. I am so sorry this has happened to you. I have deeply researched the issues surrounding vaccinations and the legal implications of what can happen. Chance was due in early spring 2008 for his rabies booster. I talked it over with Dr. Dodds and a few other very knowledgeable vets, including my own vets. While Chance will never be boostered for other vaccinations like distemper, avoiding the rabies vaccination is a violation of NYS law and can have very negative outcomes. One of those scenarios I foresaw was the restriction in NYS that dogs not currently vaccinated for rabies, but given waivers because of health reasons "may not be at large in the community." Simply put, this means that if I could get a waiver for Chance, I would not be allowed legally to bring him out in the public ever again. No walks etc, just quick pee breaks to the fenced yard. Even visits to the vet could possibly be construed as a violation. No traveling across state lines or moving to a new state. What I foresaw was exactly the situation you have had happen to you. A biting incident in public (or a "perceived" bite) or exposure to a wild animal. In the first case, legal authorities have a wider range of options. Let's say for argument that Chance (who has a full Schnauzer beard) is being petted by someone while we are out for a walk and the person suddenly becomes skiddish and alarmed, believing that the beard brushing their hand is really a "bite." He is a registered therapy dog, has a Canine Good Citizen certificate and is well known in the village. If he didn't have a current rabies vac, he is viewed as "not vaccinated against rabies." The local authority could do several things. Order him immediately destroyed to determine if he carries rabies. Impound him for a quarantine period lasting up to 2 months to look for signs of rabies. Have him under house arrest for that same period of time. Two of these scenarios involves the possibility that the person involved may have to have a series of expensive rabies shots. A dog with a well known history is more likely not to force the issue like this but would still be REQUIRED In the case of exposure to a wild animal, the case is more severe. They will be far less lenient because there is a good possibility that there was exposure to rabies. In an area like ours, that is a very good chance. In these cases it is hard for even the dog's vet to intervene on their behalf. The dog will most likely be either destroyed or removed for a lengthy quarantine. NYS law is in place to protect people from rabies. The vector they chose to use to insure this was to make it a law that companion animals be vaccinated. You would think it would make more sense to vaccinate humans, but this is costly and generally not necessary as most people don't interact with a wide range of animals, including wild animals, in their daily life. Economically, it makes more sense for them to force pet owners to provide the protection. Rabies is one of the few very dangerous diseases that crosses the barrier and can kill not only animals but humans. A human cannot get most doggie diseases, but this one they can. Case closed. They will not entertain other approaches to control. So the methods for handling exposures is very heavy handed. In the end, I had to decide that in order for Chance to still interact with the community, he had to have his rabies booster. My vet also was unable to get a waiver for a dog that was increasingly becoming more healthy. The result? He had the booster and was fine. Is this a good decision for everyone? Well no. It has to be something that each owner decides on their own. But my choice was this: I did not spend a year getting him better from AIHA to only lose him to a legality. I had to take a risk that he would not have a problem with it. Your situation is complex because it was two animals interacting. Does the other dog have a current rabies vac? If so, then that owner will most likely be forced to have their dog revaccinated at this time and watched for symptoms. That is generally accepted procedure. What if the other dog is not currently vaccinated? Then both of you, depending on your local laws, may be forced to have your dogs vaccinated and put into quarantine for a period of time. Your vet may force you in any case to have your dog vaccinated. It's all very dependable on the locality you live in. What you might explore is having a rabies titer done with Dr. Dodds at hemopet.org. She will interpret the results and this will give you a little more backing to show that Lindy "seems" to have adequate titer to rabies. These titers are not generally recognized as having any validity. In fact, the titer ranges they use for dogs are actually the ones they use for humans. I had Chance titered for reference before his shot and found that he had a high titer and probably had adequate immunity to rabies. So this might bring you some ease of mind about Lindy contracting rabies and having the ability to throw off the disease. Did you touch or interact with the bite site within 15 minutes of Lindy being bitten? This is a set window of time when the saliva from the biting animal can transmit rabies to you. If the other dog is not current in their rabies vac, you may be required to have the series of rabies shots to protect you. If this were me, I would sit down with the vet and have a long talk about all the legal and health consequences of what has happened. Your vet will know the local laws and be able to help you further. I hope that none of what happened ends up having any consequences to you or Lindy. Fingers crossed. patrice

Patrice NYS

Thanks Patrice for your input. Lindy is licensed and has a current waiver from Colorado State University in her file with Jefferson County, who issues the license. So that isn't a problem. The dog who bit her wasn't wearing a collar, so it is difficult to say if it was current on it's rabies and/or licensed. The law here is very vague compared to NYC. I tried to examine Lindy when we first got home and noted saliva on her side/chest area. It wasn't until she refused to walk on her front leg that we saw the blood. I did touch it, but had no open sores on my hand. Did I wash them afterwards? I was so stressed, I don't recall. It was lunch time and I was in no mood to eat, so my hands didn't interact with any food. At some point I probably washed them, so am not concerned with that issue, though maybe I should be. I called animal control today and left a message. I heard back from them with another message that the officer who responded to my call was off today. He is supposed to call me back tomorrow. I am amazed that NYC has such a strict enforcement on rabies shots. It makes sense, but the ramifications of not giving vacinations is very stringent. I can see why you had Chance vaccinated. Thanks again! Nancy and Lindy

Nancy CO

Nancy -- glad to hear that Lindy seems to be recovering from that horrible attack. Gosh, it's interesting to compare the differences between NYState rabies law and Colorado. My guess is the difference is so many more people and so many more lawyers in NY! Please take care and know I'm sending best wishes to you and to Lindy. I'm sure she's getting lots of extra love to comfort her.

Brenda VA

Actually the difference from state to state and indeed, even from township to township has to do with the prevalence of documented rabies cases in the area. If you live in an area that is close to the wild and there have been known wild animal cases of rabies, the laws will be very strict and interpretation will be very heavy handed. In the Rochester area, there have been several rabid wild animals attacking humans in city/suburbs areas right in their own driveways or yards. Further south of here, in the Finger Lakes area, there are documented cases of wild animals with rabies entering farms or going into homes. I know there is rabies here in Genesee county because I checked with the health dept. It was just one step I took over several months to determine what I was going to do. I wanted to talk directly to the people who make the decisions about rabies contact. Here in Genesee county, (and NYS) a rabies waiver means absolutely nothing if there is exposure to a wild animal. It only means the dog has not been vaccinated for rabies and is treated as such. If you didn't touch the saliva until you got home, and you are sure it was more than 15 min, then you are probably ok. This information is directly from my vet: the *15 min hands off rule.* Also, the closer the bite is to the head the faster the dog or human will contract rabies if they are exposed and the sooner shots must be administered. Please let me know what the outcome is. patrice

Patrice NYS

Nancy, Hopefully all will turn out o.k. In speaking with Aden who occasionally posts here (Benson's Mom) In Israel if there is a case of rabies they will kill all the animals in the area whether you have proof of vaccinations or not. I always want to ask the Vets that insist on rabies shot regardless of the situation and refuse even titers, How often they get themselves vaccinated and why do they accept titers for themselves. Go figure. Penny

Penny Lytle Creek Calif

Patrice, I did touch the saliva within 15 minutes. I was maybe two or three minutes from home when it happened. Beings I wasn't bitten, I should be okay. I've seen rabid wild life, growing up in Iowa, and this dog didn't fit the description. I'm not an expert, however. I'll talk more to animal control, tomorrow. Thanks again! Penny, I'm glad I don't live in Isreal where they kill innocent pets. Lindy's local vet should do titers if I ask him. He didn't seem concerned about the attack dog having rabies. He was more concerned with not stressing Lindy. Brenda, you are probably right about there being more attorney's in NY. I grew up in a small town and now live in a cow town! :-) Lindy is doing fine, though I'm afraid to walk her anymore. I may use her stroller this summer, as she can be safely zipped inside. The vet suggested a doggie treadmill. He was serious! Nancy and Lindy

Nancy CO

For those of you who are not familiar with Lindy and her bout with AIHA, you can read her Success Story at the following URL: http://www.cloudnet.com/~jdickson/archives18.htm Nancy and I have been communicating over the past few days and just today I added an update to the end Lindy's Success Story which you can read by clicking on the URL posted above

Joanne MN

Gracious, that had to be terrifying for you and your little one. I hope they find that dog so there can be no doubt about it not having rabies.

Sandra

This thread was discussed between 10/02/2009 and 19/02/2009

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