Canine Autoimmune Hemolytic Anemia (AIHA & IMHA) - Jessi & Toqua update

I spoke with Dr. Paula Davies last night, internal med specialist who performed Toq's surgery. It was mainly just to let her know how my girl is doing, and to ask some more questions. She was somewhat amazed to hear that Toq is doing so well. You could hear the relief in her voice when she realized it was a good news phone call. She said there is that group of abnormal dogs, it is a very small group, that seem to defy the odds. Things are great for my little furry family. Touch wood. It feels like before all this happened again. I wasn't sure that we would see that. But I find that for the last few days I have been fretting; there is a knot in my stomach. I am just getting nervous that any day things could start slide for my dear Toqua. The calm before the storm. It just seems too good to be true. But of course every time I feel that way I hear "Toqua doesn't know how sick she is or how long the vets gave her". (Brigitte, I don't think you will ever know how much your words have and continue to help me through this!) It puts the smile back on my face. Dr. Davies and I talked about stress. While there haven't been many studies documenting stress related to relapse time, she feels stress could cause things to happen faster than nature would have it happen. My guy has an 11 yr old female pit X. She is a sweet girl, but is dominant, head strong, and stubborn just like Toq. We tried for almost half a year to acclimatize the two. They were fine together in neutral territory. They would run off leash together and even chase each other around. But Toqua is very territorial and possessive (typical female Border collie). As soon as they were on the property or in the house, it was time to fight. So it ended up being just too stressful for all of us. They had to be seggregated in the house - one outside or locked away, and one in the house. Stare downs through the windows. One day, in a lapse of memory, the bedroom door was accidently left open. Toqua came flying out and it was on. They both ended up with bloody mouths. It was that night that Zack decided Aurora needed to go see his parents. We did try again a couple months ago. It was actually the day Toqua got sick, so Aurora was immediately shipped back to grandma and grandpa's. I know all this has been so hard on Zack. He has been away from his girl for a long while. And with Toq being sick I know it has made him think about Aurora's mortality. She is an "old" 11 year old girl. He now is going to be starting a house an hour out of town, so will be spending his weeks staying at the site (he builds log homes), and will be coming home on weekends. Of course, because of the situation he will be taking Aurora out with him. I am just worried about the time when he is at home. I can't tell him not to spend time with his girl. I know how I would feel. But how do I tell him I don't want her at the house? That I feel the stress of her being there will speed up Toqua's illness? I know how tense and stressed Toqua is, and me as a result, when Aurora is there. I am not willing to put Toq in any situation that will negatively affect her health. I am going to have to be very sensitive about this issue. Dr. Davies did say that no stress, or minimal stress in a must to maintain Toq's health.

Jessi BC

Jessi, both you and Toqua have my continued thoughts and prayers. Hang in there and be strong. Johnny & Tessy

Johnny

Jessi, thanks for the compliments, that line came in some form or another form Patrice. One of her echo's that are circulating on this forum! I remember her saying how important it is for a sick dog to keep a routine. Don't treat them as they are sick, keep it happy! As for dealing with aggression under one roof.... I think if I would be in your shoes, I would invest in an x-pen. Keep both dogs in the house and reward them for NOT looking at each other with tasty treats. don't separate them behind closed doors. this way they can still see and smell each other. This is probably less stressful than never knowing if that beast turns up somewhere again? Since they are both seniors, it is probably not worth the effort and not realistic to try and have them be friends. Keeping them apart, but under the same roof should be possible with a little work. Have them take turns as to who is in the X-pen or out. If you have a good dog trainer in the area that works with positive reinforcement, maybe he/she could come to your house and work with you. Just a thought. Best wishes, Brigitte & the poodle boys

Brigitte BC Canada

Jessi, Just an other thing that came to mind, you are probably tense when the dogs are both around. They will certainly sense that. So YOU will have to relax. No deep growling voice, keep it happy! Brigitte

Brigitte BC Canada

Well, guess I need to thank Patrice, also. Thank you, Patrice!! I agree with the routine part, too. You know, we have tried all that over and over and over. I have tried training techniques with a number of high profile trainers, and nothing seems to work - when it comes to being in the yard, or especially the house. At this point in time, I am really not willing to put Toq through anything stressful. Bringing Aurora into the house just exaserbates things. I appreciate your thoughts and input, though. I just need to explain my feelings to Zack, and I know he will understand.

Jessi BC

I'm glad to read your update and that Toqua still continues to do so well! I am keeping my fingers crossed that she is one who defies the odds. That's a tough one about Aurora. It sounds like he will have time with her during the week when he is away; can she stay with his parents when he comes home on weekends? I would be inclined to keep things as mellow and routine as you can for Toqua. What a tough situation! I'm sorry you need to be thinking about that on top of everything else.

Jennifer

Jessi, I have read quite a bit on canine behavior and I have plenty of friends who have had numerous Giant Schnauzers in their homes at the same time. They are like potato chips, you can't have just one. My good friend down south currently has 4, count them, four rescue Giants right now. Here's the scoop. Dogs that are high drive (especially) and live in family packs, tend to pay a great deal of attention to the pecking order. It can be a very tense situation as they seem to sort out the hierarchy of who is on top, the middle and the bottom. I certainly know plenty of owners who have to do the "crate and cycle the dogs through them" routine all day long. It is a well known anecdotal behavior that when dogs begin to sense illness in another dog they realize it may be time to make a move up the ladder. Left unbridled, they will act on this and attack the sick dog. It is an unfortunate fact of nature. And I have known several owners who were dismayed to find this happening to them. To a certain extent, if an owner is very dominant and rules the house with an iron fist, they can put a stop to any coups going on just by the way they defer to the ill or old dog. It's very hard to do. The owner must almost totally ignore the dog making the play for the top dog and pay all their attention to the sick dog. Even then, it isn't totally a safe thing to do. A good book to read would be Jon Katz "A Good Dog: The Story of Orson." He talks about a border collie that he rescues and how hard it is for Orson to live with himself. Sometimes dogs just have a hard time living with humans and what we expect for them to be. Brigette is right, keep the routine. Make each part of the day predictable. This is a very difficult situation for you. But my personal feelings are that these two dogs do not belong together right now. I listen to some of the routines friends go through to keep their dogs apart and I think "this can't be healthy for anyone in that household." my best patrice

Patrice NYS

Patrice, Thanks for the early morning laughs - potato chips. We definitely having a pecking order at home. Toqua rules the roost (with the four legged members), but I am the BOSS. She is always keeping Fin and even the cat in place. Our household was very stressed and unhealthy when Aurora was with us last. But we always held out the hope that things would change. Unfortunately they never did. The girls just couldn't deal with each other in close quarters. They both wanted to be with us, the one that wasn't was always upset. As much as I would love for us all to be one big happy family, at this point in time I don't feel it is worth trying. If Toqua wasn't sick then I would be all for another attempt. But the circumstances are changed, and Zack has to realize that. But he sees Toqua doing well, and hasn't seemed to grasp the fact that she is still sick, she has cancer, and what we are seeing now is a temporary thing. I have prepared myself (as best I can) for the end, the day I will have to say good-bye. And I am not willing to do anything to speed up when that day comes. I just have to approach this hot topic carefully. I am not one for beating around the bush. I tell it how it is. That won't work in this case. I just need to tell him, very delicately, how I feel, what Dr. Davies has said, recommended. Having these two together now is not in Toqua's best interest. I know that if the situation were reversed her would do everything he could to ensure Aurora's health.

Jessi BC

Jessi, You have obviously tried everything and given these two girls a fair chance. Like you said it is obviously a temporary situation and forcing anything would mean stress and Toqua sure does not need that. I am so happy Toqua is feeling good! Best wishes, Brigitte & the poodle boys

Brigitte BC Canada

This thread was discussed between 21/04/2010 and 22/04/2010

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