Canine Autoimmune Hemolytic Anemia (AIHA & IMHA) - Hope for Madchen

My 6 year old cocker spaniel Madchen has been diagnosed with AIHA. I took her into the vet on September 20, 2010, at that point she was severely sick her pcv level was between 6 and 8, I almost lost her. The vet immediately admitted her overnight and she had a blood transfusion which brought her pcv level to 17. She has been on is still on the following medication: 50 mg and 10 mg of predizone,Doxycylone 100 mg, Cytoxan 50 mg, Aspirin 81 mg and Pepcid 20 mg and now she is taking Atopica 50 mg. The vet said she is on every medication she can be on. She had her second blood transfusion yesterday and is home with me today. Her pcv levels were at 24 today when I picked her up. I am going back to the vet every other day to check her pcv levels. I must say it has been an emotional and stressful past 2 weeks but I keep hoping for a miracle. I am doing everything I can to help her out. Can anyone recommend any questions to ask the vet. Thanks

Kristin Louisville KY

Kristin~ So sorry to hear about your Madchen's illness. But glad she is fighting this terrible disease. My poodle, Tori has IHMA and also had a blood transfusion and almost died. Unfortunately, she reacted poorly to the blood transfusion and cannot have another like yours did. SHe is now responding well to the meds and we have always stayed positive...others have and are survivors and we all want to beat this thing just as you all do. Hang in there! I cannot really answer your question about what to ask the vet, but Johnny, Patrice and so many more have had more experience and will be glad to help you navigate this with your vet. They will read your post... And others will give you suggestions and most of all encouragement Meanwhile, I will be praying for you and your little cocker. Blessings, Cindi

Cindi & Tori PCB

Kristin, I am so sorry to hear about your girl being diagnosed with AIHA. You have a long and rocky road ahead of you, but there is no reason why you could not be hopeful that Madchen will recover. If you have not found Joanne's site please go there: http://www.cloudnet.com/~jdickson/index.html You will find a lot of information there. Please go to the success stories. You will see that there are so many survivors and that there is hope! Madchen is on a lot of medications, but that is necessary to suppress her immune system and to help her build blood and minimize the side effects. It would be good to help her liver by also giving her denamarin and milkthistle. I am not familiar with Cytoxan and looked it up. Does Madchen have cancer? maybe somebody else knows why this is given. Your vet seems to be very knowledgeable about the disease, but I have to disagree that Madchen is on every medication she can be. Ask if it could be beneficial to put her on cyclosporin. This (expensive) medication has helped many dogs here. I would also ask if you could have her thyroid checked. Many AIHA dogs are or become hypothyroid. Thyroid medication could boost the blood building. There is a supplement called petinic you could ask the vet about, that could be very helpful. If you haven't done so already, a day planner or spread sheet is very helpful to keep track of all the medications. You will be tired and it is so easy to forget a pill. You don't want that to happen. Some vets are very open to all these questions and suggestions, some are not. So you may want to tread lightly. You could also ask if your vet would consult with a specialist or better even with Dr. Dodds. of hemopet. She has helped so many dogs survive and she never gives up. You could send her lab results or Madchens blood. Either way she will make valuable suggestions. Her prices are very reasonable. I can't think of anything else right now, but please keep the questions coming, you will learn so much in the next few weeks. Make sure you take care of yourself! Try and stay positive. Madchen will pick up on your stress and that is not good for her. Keep her calm and rested. Quality food and lots of water. Best wishes, Brigitte & the poodle boys

Brigitte BC Canada

Brigitte, Cytoxan was regularly used for dogs with AIHA/IMHA before cyclosporine started being used for dogs with the disease. If you read some of the older Success Stories at the MH Web site you will see it mentioned. Alos Madchen is on Cyclosporine since atopica is the canine approved form of that drug. Kristin I would urge you to have Madchen's thyroid tested. Getting on thyroid meds has helped the recovery process for many AIHA/IMHA dogs. Also please read the Success Stories at the Meisha's Hope Web site: http://www.cloudnet.com/~jdickson/successstories.htm They will show you what has worked for other dogs in terms of treatment options as well give you a lot of HOPE.

Joanne MN

Kristen, I don't see that Madchen is on Azathioprine sold under the brand name Imuran. Many AIHA/IMHA dogs have done very well on this drug. You can learn more about Azathioprine at this Web page: http://www.marvistavet.com/html/azathioprine.html Also you might want to check out this Web page which has info about a study in which azathioprine was used: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15934255?dopt=Abstract You might want to print out that page and share it with your vet.

Joanne MN

Joanne, of course you are right....it was late last night when I posted. I got Atopica and Azathioprine mixed up. Thanks for the info on the Cytoxan, it shows that even after almost 2 years into "this" I am still a newbie. Kristin, Joanne is the expert here, sorry for the confusion. Please keep us posted on how things are going. When you go to the vet next time, ask for copies of all the lab results. It might be confusing at first, but you will start to see trends and also you have the numbers handy to post here. Best wishes, Brigitte & the poodle boys

Brigitte BC Canada

Thank you everyone for the quick responses. It feels good to have people out there that know what I am going through. I must say today she is very calm and being herself and I am checking her gums. I am going back to the vet tomorrow to get her pcv levels checked. I will also ask the vet if she checked her thyroid I am pretty sure that she did check that in the beginning. Madchen did get sick today after I gave her all of her medications. I did read that the Atopica could cause vomiting and soft stool. She is eating today and is constantly drinking. One of the good things the vet did say on Friday her white blood cells are normal. I am hoping and praying for my baby. I will take all of the resources everyone has given me and use them. I will also keep everyone updated on her recovery and what is going on. Thanks Kristin

Kristin Louisville KY

Kristin, The only thing I can add at this point is that it would serve you well to make a spread sheet or just a simple notebook that you can track the meds and the readings and your own observations on Madchen's behavior. It all can get pretty muddled in the beginning when you are trying to remember things. Keeping you both in my thoughts and pryers. Penny

Penny Lytle Creek Calif

why did they do the 2nd transfusion instead of waiting to see how the pills were doing? did the pcv drop again lower?

Pam Il

Hey Pam, Her pcv level was at 12 on Friday. So I didn't want to take a risk for it to go lower. Now she is at 24 I don't know what she will be tomorrow but I am going in tomorrow morning I will post on here what I find out.

Kristin Louisville KY

Please know that we are sending our prayers for Madchen. If you can give us an updated on how she does at the vet tomorrow. Cheryl & Ginger

Cheryl & Ginger Pinevile PA

Kristin, so sorry you are having to deal with this disease but you found a wonderfull place to get help and support. If you are going to the vet tomorrow perhaps you could ask for a CBC & a Chem panel. **OR** just have them do a PCV (packed cell volume/spun) and get them to also send a sample out to Dr. Dodds at hemopet for analysis. She's the expert in this disease and has helped many of us here. She's wonderfull and you can't go wrong with getting her expertise. The full blown test that includes EVERYTHING (almost) costs only $115 and this includes a breed/age/sex specific FULL thyroid panel. If you don't then I'd recommend you at least get a CBC and Chem panel from your vet and BE SURE to get copies of the tests. INSIST on getting copies of them if they don't agree at first. We all get copies here...at least most of us do. Cytoxan....nasty nasty drug. It's a cytotoxic drug used primarily for treating cancer. I used it a few weeks ago for TEssy as part of her new protocol and from what I've read about it it can have some very serious side effects. As Joanne mentioned above it used to be used to treat this disease but I'd assume that was before imuran was around (azathioprine). They're both cytotoxic drugs and work in much the same manner....by killing of the hyperactive cells responsible for the destruction of the RBC. Bone marrow suppression on ALL levels is common with this drug. Azathioprine is much much less severe and that's likely why they use this instead of cytoxan now...less side effects with azathioprine. Perhaps you could talk to the vet about switching to azathioprine if the numbers are steady OR just lowering the cytoxan. Make sure she's drinking LOTS of water while taking this drug. Did they test her for tick disease? Any known triggers? Vaccinations? Flea meds? Poisons? Stress? REcent meds? etc. etc. If you can pinpoint a trigger then that makes treatment all the more easier! If madchen gets sick easily after taking meds then it might be best to separate the drugs and give at different times...if the schedule allows for this. I used to separate Tessy's cyclosporine (atopica) from the pred and aza. You might also do well to pretreat with an antinausea drug if she gets sick frequently after taking meds. What is the med schedule? Some drugs twice daily or once daily? How much does Madchen weigh? Other things for you to get... -milk thistle -Pet Tinic -stomach protectant...sucralfate (always good to have on hand) Oh...and did I mention I'm a HUGE Cocker fan! hehe I'll keep you both in my thoughts and prayers. Johnny & Tessy

Johnny

Just got off the phone with the vet an hour ago. I advised her on what happened today with Madchen vomiting she said that is a normal side effect and she did ask me if she threw up the medication and I said no. She recommended me giving her the Atopica an hour after I give her the other medication. Her prognosis at this time for Madchen is to continue on the drugs she is on and see how the drugs react. She said if Madchen does not improve with the pcv levels that is a sign of "no response" which basically she said that is not a good sign and if we keep doing a transfusion it could cause her harm. I want to save her from this but I also want her to have a good quality of life. If she is not responding to the medication, I don't know what to do it is such a tough decision do I keep going, and give her another transfusion? She also said I did not need to take her in tomorrow unless her gums were a different color. I also asked her tonight on the phone about getting her thyroid checked she said we can do the test but it could take 7 to 14 days to get the results back. Johnny, I give madchen Predizone twice a day (morning and evening), Doxycyclone twice a day (morning and evening), Cytoxan once a day (morning) Atopica once a day (morning) Pepcid twice a day (morning and evening) and Asprin once a day (evening) In the morning I give her medication at 8am and evening at 8pm. If the medication keeps madchen stable I will ask her to switch off of the Cytoxan or lower it. She is drinking alot. She is my baby girl she is so adorable. I wish I could post pictures of her on here.

kristin louisville ky

How much does Madchen weigh? I'd ask to maybe give the Atopica twice daily for a total of 100mg daily. 50mg doesn't sound like a whole lot (unless she's a mini-cocker). If you send bloodwork off to Hemopet and Dr. Dodds tomorrow you'd have the results by probably Thurday or Friday at the latest. I can't even begin to say how much this has changed things for us. I just wish I would have sent blood to her sooner! Dr. Dodds noticed things that our regular vet never would have and due to her expertise we made some changes and we finally saw significant improvement in Tessy!!! If you went in the morning they'd be able to ship it out same day! ALSO you could use priority shipping and the blood would be there even quicker. I can help you figure out how to send the blood. It's all on her website... hemopet.com If this were me I'd separate the doxy from the pred and cytoxan and also separate the cyclo from everything else. Transfusions...I know of a dog that has had SIX transfusions and just recently heard of one that has had SEVEN and survived!!! It's up to you if you want to do them though. Johnny & Tessy

Johnny

she weighs around 32lbs, If I want to send blood to Dr Dodds, what do I do? Does my vet know where to send it? Or do I take the sample and send it off myself? You said you did this, will this basically find out why Madchen is not responding to the medication? Cause if so this sounds like the way to go. I just don't wanna give up on her. For my vet to tell me if she does not respond to the medication I might have to put her down, there has to be another solution out there.

kristin louisville ky

Twice now I've been told Tessy wasn't going to make it and guess what....she's still here!!! There's always hope. I can't guarantee you the answers you want if you were to send blood to Dr. Dodds BUT I CAN guarantee you that Madchen's chances of survival will only get better. Most vets just aren't informed well enough with the proper knowledge to treat this disease...cytoxan being a prime example and sometimes we need the help and advise of a specialist. If you want to send blood to Dr. Dodds (and I highly recommend you do...as would many others here) the first thing to do is discuss it with your vet and just simply tell them you want to consult with a specialist and you did lots of research and want to go with Dr. Dodds. Print out the required forms (2 pages?) from ... www.hemopet.org/files/TEST%20REQUEST%20FORMandINSTRUCTIONS.pdf ...and get them filled out. There's instructions on taking, preparing and sending the blood there also. You vet does all this! The test you will want to do is the THYROID PROFILE 5 PLUS...this includes a CBC, chem, thyroid, etc. for $115. I can say that if anyone can help to figure this out for you it would be Dr. Dodds. I emailed her when Tessy was first sick and not even a couple hrs later the phone rang and it was her!!! I was soooo impressed! A world famous veterinary specialist calling me!!! Unreal! And she does this sort of stuff for everyone!! She shows real passion in her work! Email her tonight and explain your case and that you'd like to send blood to her for testing. hemopet@hotmail.com Keep me posted. Johnny & Tessy

Johnny

Hi Kristin, I am so sorry that Madchen has been diagnoses with AIHA. Dogs PCV's don't necessarily increase straight away. My vet told me initially that if my dog Millie's PCV didn't increase overnight, then we'd have to put her down - I know now that expecting that is unrealistic. Millie took 3 weeks to increase in PCV following her blood transfusion. Do you know Madchen's reticulocyte count? This will tell you if her AIHA is regenerative or non-regenerative. Maybe your vet has already told you this? Non-regenerative anemia is harder to fight as it means the bone marrow is not producing new red blood cells. In a regenerative dog, the bone marrow would be pumping out reticulocytes (baby red blood cells) in response to the lack of red blood cells. My gut feel is to stay away from Cytoxan - as Johnny said, Azathioprine is preferred and a number of dogs do really well on this drug. It worked for my girl Millie! My advice is be patient with the PCV rise, find out if Madchen has non-regenerative or regenerative anemia, send blood to Dr Dodds and follow the great advice you've received from other people on this board! Take care and keep us posted, Sam and Millie (a 21 month IMHA survivor!).

Samantha Geelong

Her reticulocyte count was 7.9 and the percentage was .5%...I was advised this is not regenerative. This is not good news!!

kristin louisville

im going into see another doctor tomorrow at another facility to get a second opinion.

kristin

Kristin, I am very sorry to hear this diagnosis of non-regenerative anemia. My dog Chance was diagnosed with this in 2007. We had a few problems in the beginning getting him started on the correct treatment protocol, but eventually we were successful and he recovered after about 6 months of treatment. If you search the archives you can find many detailed posts about his treatment. The reticulocyte count of 7.9 is most likely 7,900. There are always a small number of these in everyone's blood and that number is usually around 60,000 or 1% for a healthy human or dog. They are essentially immature red blood cells and take about 3-4 days to mature. In a dog with anemia, this number should be much higher, depending on the severity of anemia, and could be as high as 600,000 and 5-6%. In a few days after seeing this high number there would be a significant increase in the PCV packed cell volume as these cells mature into RBC red blood cells. I have written here on this forum in detail about reticulocytes. The most important thing for you to do now is find a veterinary specialist who has knowledge of this special kind of canine anemia. You may be lucky and find a local vet at a clinic who has special knowledge of this, but the chances are slim that you will find one who has treated this condition frequently. Or you can ask your vet if they will agree to work by phone and email with Dr. Jean Dodds who is a specialist in these canine blood conditions. She will consult for a $35 fee. See her website www.hemopet.org and look under Hemolife Diagnostics and select Test Request Submission Form. On the bottom you will see Consultation Only. This is how I worked with my local vet, they were delighted to work with Jean. She has developed a special protocol for canine non-regenerative bone marrow failure. Her email is hemopet @ hotmail .com remove the spaces to use. I can say for certainty that this condition can respond quite well to this protocol and you have reason to have great hope that you will be successful. my best patrice

Patrice NYS

Hi Kristin- I am not an expert like many of those on the board but I can tell you my experience with Chloe. It took her weeks to become responsive from a PCV of 9 and the only way we kept her going was by transfusion. She had 8 units of packed cells before she became regenerative. I know the internist thought I was nuts but I wanted to give Chloe a fighting chance. I think for some dogs it takes a while for the body to respond. I am so sorry you have to face this wicked disease. Dr.Dodds has been a life saver for Chloe. I am so sorry I didn't consult with her earlier. The Pet-Tinic and thyroid meds really seem to help Chloe. Best of luck with your little girl Madchen! Stay strong for her. Cheri and Chloe

Cheri Maryland

I had emailed Dr Dodds today I am hoping to hear back from her about Madchen's case, today I am going into another vet clinic tomorrow to get a second opinion on everything. I am also going to mention about Dr Dodds and have them fill out. Today's Madchens gums are continuing to look pink and her eyes have pink in them now which is a good sign.

Kristin Louisville

i apologize for all of the typos above been so worried about everything lately. Trying to hang in there.

kristin louisville ky

Hi Kristin, Great move getting Dr Dodds on board and getting a second opinion. It wasn't until I went to a Teaching Hospital with specialist vets that Millie was finally getting the right care. Hang in there - you are doing everything right for Madchen. We are all here to support and help you. Don't worry about the typos! :) Samantha & Millie.

Samantha Geelong Australia

Kristin -- sorry to hear about Madchen, but you've come to the right place. And so glad to hear that you've e-mailed Dr. Dodds, since she has been so essential to the success of so many dog families in dealing with this horrible disease. Good luck to you and your sweet Madchen!

Brenda VA

Hello Everyone, My name is Angie; and my partner and I are friends of Kristin and Madchen. I went with Kristin to her veterinarian’s office today, and I wanted to let everyone know what is going on with her pup. We went and saw Dr. Marsha G. today, and we spoke with her for over an hour about Madchen’s blood work and thyroid testing. We also spoke about her medications, and there have been a few changes Kristin has decided to make for her pup. First of all her blood work came back at 21.5 for her red blood cell count today. Her count was at 24 on Saturday, so she dropped a mere 2.5 points since her last transfusion. (Yes her transfusion was from a whole blood source and the same donor as her first transfusion) Kristin and Dr. Marsha also talked about getting the pup off of Cytoxan. Kristin has been concerned about this medication since she has been corresponding with Dr. Dodd from Hemopet / Hemolife group in California. Since Cytoxan is not the standard protocol anymore for AIHA, Kristin asked about getting her dog taken off the drug. Dr. Marsha agreed that Madchen should be taken off the drug since it could be that the drug was “over suppressing” her immune system, and that could account for why the dogs red blood cell count has continued to drop even   though she has been on medication. She remains on the Atopica, Prednisone, Pepcid, Asprin, and the Doxyclone. However there has been an addition of Iron to her regiment, it is actually an Iron derivative. She is currently going to be getting 300mg of Iron a day, this is in the hope that is helps bolster the system to fight the anemia by helping her body more easily make red blood cells. Dr. Marsha is also running an in house thyroid test to see if Madchen’s thyroid levels are low, in the event that they are low, she will be sending out the blood work for further testing to the University Of Michigan to be tested further to verify if it is in fact a thyroid deficiency, or if her thyroid levels are down simply due to her illness. At this time, Kristin and Dr. Marsha have decided to wait to see if her blood work warrants a thyroid medication. The reason for t his, is the concern of Hyper Thyroidism, in humans known as Graves Disease. This would mean that if a healthy thyroid was given a medication to stimulate the thyroid and make it more active, she could have a heart murmur, heart palpitations, high blood pressure, difficulty breathing, weight loss, and possible other side effects from introducing this medication to a healthy thyroid. These conditions that could be possible, are the reason for waiting for the blood work to come back, with her system already compromised, she could suffer greatly with adverse side effects from an unneeded medication. Another medication that was added was Flagyl. This is to help her with any stool issues she may be having due to the medications. (she has been experiencing some softened stool due to a few medications, and the hope is this will help even her stomach and bowels so she is more regular and not at risk for diarrhea.) Madchen has been eating well, and has been drinking plenty of water. She is having some mild side effects with panting and thirsts due to the steroids, however these are very minor and the good is out weighing the negative side effects of the drug at this time. She has a healthy coat, her gums are slightly paler today than previous days, however they are still pink, her eyes are clear and bright, her energy level is good (though her mommy has been giving her a lot of bed rest as the doctor ordered) and she is very alert and aware of her surroundings. She seems to be in good spirits, and is fighting the good fight against her illness. I hope this helps everyone know more or less what is going on, and I am sure Kristin will post again soon regarding the thyroid testing that she is currently having done. Everyone please have a good day, and give your dog or cat an extra bit of loving today. Angie Hady And Of Course...Yoshi Mars (Madchen's K9 Friend)

angie louosville

Dr Marsha called me this evening. Turns out Madchen has a low thyroid count it was .6 she said the normal count should be between .8 and 5. We started the thyroid meds this evening she said it could take a few days to see results. I have put her on Soloxine twice a day. I hope to get better results for her.

kristin louisville

You might try some pumpkin for Madchen's stool issues. Make sure it is the pure pumpkin not the filling mix. Ironically enough it works both for constipation and diarrhea. A lot of shelters use it and a number of people on this board have had a high success using it. Always like alternatives to more drugs. Glad they picked up on the Thyroid problems. I would still ask that your Vet send the tests out to Dr. Dodds she has developed a new Thyroid test that is breed specific. Penny

Penny Lytle Creek Calif

Hi Just wondering how Madchen is doing. Sending hugs and prayers Cheryl & Ginger

Cheryl & Ginger Pineville PA

hey everyone Madchen's pcv levels dropped to 19 as of today. I am thinking about doing another transfusion here in the next few days if she drops again. What is everyone's input on that? Just curious what everyone else has gone through...is it unusual for dogs to have to go through alot of transfusions at first? Kristin

kristin louisville ky

Kristin, I am sorry that you don't have great news, Madchen's PCV is clearly slowly dropping. But with 19 she is not yet in the "transfusion zone". At least to my knowledge. I think that transfusions usually are done below 15. Usually after the transfusion the PCV goes up drastically and then drops again. This is not unusual. remember, it takes a few days until the medications kick in. But once that happens, her PCV should be rising. Do you know if she is maybe non regenerative? did you send some lab results to Dr. Dodds? She would be the one to advise you on this. Best wishes, Brigitte & the poodle boys

Brigitte BC Canada

ONLY if needed....that's what I always say. When is one needed? YOu should go by both the numbers and how she's doing clinically. If the crit drops to let's say 15% but she's still acting and doing clinically well (not acting too sick or anemic) then I'd hold off just a bit longer. Transfusions are a tricky thing and can cause even further bone marrow suppression. Given the fact that you just added thyroid supplements (did you?) then I'd try really hard to give it a week and keep a really REALLY good eye on the reticulocyte (baby red blood cells) count to see if it rises even remotely. This could be a sign the marrow is responding. You say you are giving an iron supplement to her...are you also giving B12? Two of these work best given together. You could also discuss with the vet (or Dr. Dodds) the possibility of trying an anabolic steroid injection. These are used merely to stimulate the bone marrow. AGAIN though, I'd hold off for as long as possible and go by clinical signs more than actual numbers. Keep a good eye on here and watch for the signs that she may be regressing. I've got a feeling the retics will climb now that she's on the thyroid supps. REmember also that the crit is dropping really really slow. When is the next test? Continued thoughts and prayers for the both of you. Johnny & Tessy

Johnny

She had her 2nd transfusion on October 1st. That brought her pcv level up to 24, Tuesday October 5th her pcv was at 22 and now today she is at 19. The doctor said she is non regenerative, but I have been told that necessarily does not mean anything that I could possibly fight this? I asked my doctor tonight when she called me I said what is the plan for her right now? She wants to continue Madchen on the meds that we just put her on. She just started on Thyroid meds on Tuesday. She also told me that her reticulocyte count is sitll at .3 which hasnt moved up or down it is the same since Tuesday. I am giving her the Iron supplement but not the B12. I did not send any lab results yet to Dr Dodds. My vet most likely will be sending the lab results to the University of Michigan. I am going to keep a close eye on her the next two days and take her back on Monday and go from there. Thank you for your thoughts and prayers. Kristin

Kristin Louisville

Dear Kristin Im sending healing thoughts and prayers to you and Madchen - these guys here are great with their advice. Johnny will tell you how tough those cockers are! Best wishes from me Silka

Silka Melbourne Australia

Kristin, just checking in to see how Madchen's doing. Any news? Johnny & Tessy

Johnny

hey johnny and everyone, went to see Dr Marsha yesterday for a check up for Madchen. Her pcv levels remained the same at 19 but baby red blood cells went from .3 last week to now 2.3 so something seems to be working. Still in that early stage where should could go either way but I am hoping for improvement this is a good sign!! :)

kristin louisville ky

Did you get copies of the bloodwork?

Johnny

no i didnt, why you ask?

kristin louisville

i am actually moving next week to another state so I will be able to get all of madchen's vet records and take them with me to her new doctor.

kristin louisville

Kristin....how's Madchen been doing?

Johnny

Hey everyone sorry i havent been able to get on the internet for awhile to keep everyone updated on May's status. i've relocated from ky to pa changed doctors he seems really nice and very good. on that note he consulted with dr marsha about everything that has been going on. As of today may's pcv is at 25 her white blood cells are higher then normal and the doctor said that could be because of thet meds she is on the pred. i dont go back until next wedneday but she seems to be doing great. Just wanted to let everyone know what was going on.

kristin Reading

Sounds like things are heading in the right direction for Madchen! Thanks for updating us. Continued thoughts and prayers for you and Madchen. Johnny & Tessy

Johnny

Glad the move went well and the transition for Madchen and the vets. Nice improvement in the PCVs. Prayers going up for you and your little girl. Blessings, Cindi

Cindi & Tori PBC

White blood cell count went down we dropped doxycycline. PCV was still at 25 as of Thursday I will see him again in another week. I will keep everyone updated on here.

kristin Reading

I came across a copy of titers I had run on my non AIHA dog a few years back. He is terrified of going to the Vet and had to have a bath while he was there because he let everything loose. The one thing that is interesting is on that test his Glucose and his WBC were above the normal high side range. Glucose 132 norm 60-125 WBC 16.6 norm 5.7-16.3 My Vet attributed it to stress. Could be that Madchen was just reacting to your move? Glad to hear she is holding her own.

Penny Lytle Creek Calif

Hey Penny, Well it is possible that she was reacting to the loss of my job back in June plus where I was living before it was a very hostile environment with my old roommate. Her white blood cells have dropped they were higher then normal but we just took her off doxycylcine. She is still on alot of medication, we dropped her predizone down to 20 mg once a day, she takes imuran (generic) once a day, flagyl twice a day, pepcid once a day and accid reducer twice a day. As far as clinically she is doing okay but right now the problem I am having with her is her stool is very soft, I had her on hill's prescription i/d wet food along with flagyl and now the doctor switched her to the hill's prescription w/d and now her stool is even more soft. So right now I am struggling with that I am trying to watch the amount of treats and food I am giving her. I have only been giving her the prescription w/d for 2 days now the doctor recommended it because it is a high fiber diet so it should help her, so I will have to wait and see. Her pcv has gone up to 26 so not a huge increase but I'd like to see her go up to 30 soon.

kristin

Kristin, Stress can definitely have an influence on our dogs health. I am glad Madchen is heading in the right direction! For more fiber in Madchen's diet I would try and add canned pumpkin. Just make sure it is plain pumpkin, not the pie filling. This has worked for many dogs on this forum. I would also stay away from the hills diet. It is not very well rated and not very nutritious. I know it sounds crazy, because it is prescribed and recommended by vets. I remember thinking people that cook for their dogs are crazy, but guess what? I started cooking fabulous meals for my AIHA dog. It felt so good to put all this good stuff into him, not just pills. Of course you have to give a balanced diet, but once you get the basics, it is not hard. here is a good receipe from Dr. Dodds: http://www.canine-epilepsy.com/Liver%20cleansing%20diet.htm Instead of fish I also used turkey and chicken. Needless to say, our dog ate better than we did:) Best wishes, Brigitte & the poodle boys

Brigitte BC Canada

Kristin, I think this review says it all: http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/showproduct.php/product/1077/cat/7 Best wishes, Brigitte

Brigitte BC Canada

Hey everyone, today I got a phone call from Madchen's vet stating that the Atopica generic is in a liquid form, the problem is Madchen does not take liquid medication very well. I told them we are going to have to think of another alternative. Does anyone know why I am giving this to her in the first place I am just trying to see if anyone has used this drug with their dogs? According to the information I found out this is what it it used for. Atopica is a soft capsule used to treat atopic dermatitis (commonly called skin allergies) in dogs. Signs of skin allergies include scratching, licking, gnawing, chewing, skin infections, hair loss, terrible odor, and sleepless nights. Atopica requires a prescription from your veterinarian. So with that being said I am not sure why this comes into play with treating the auto immune, I want obvious the best care for Madchen but if there is no reason to continue Atopica then I feel like its another drug that is useless. She is doing well by the way I am going back to see the doctor next Thursday to check her levels. I have noticed over the past few weeks her improvement how she is acting and being in her new environment. This morning I woke up and she was laying beside me for the past few weeks she has been laying on the floor, I don't like her jumping up and down on furniture as much but it was nice to see her in bed with me this morning it was a surprise and sense of relief that she is coming back to old self again. Hope to hear back. Kristin

Kristin

Kristin, I can understand your confusion about what you have been reading. In fact, cyclosporine, or as you have been referring to it, Atopica, is a potent immunosuppressive drug. When surgeons began performing human organ transplantation they discovered that they needed to suppress the immune system so it would not destroy the newly transplanted organ that the body saw as "not self." So the original organ recipients received high dose prednisone therapy to suppress the immune system. Because the immune system in these patients would need to be suppressed for very long periods of time, perhaps their full lifetime, the side effects from the high dose prednisone were devastating and many of these patients had serious infections, among many other side effects. Researchers began looking for another drug that would suppress the immune system and would target just the elements of the immune system responsible for the damage to the "self." This would mean that the rest of the immune system could protect the body from infections etc. They eventually discovered that a certain fungus could do just that and cyclosporine was developed. The very early use with transplant patients was phenomenal. It was a very expensive drug and thus was used mostly for transplant patients for a very long time. More recently, human experiments have shown great promise for it's use in other kinds of autoimmune conditions. Drug companies have released several formulations for other uses such as the treatment of rheumatoid arthritis and psoriasis. Eventually it came to veterinary medicine. The only researched and tested use for it is with canine atophy or inhaled allergies. The test results on dogs were stunning and showed that dogs tolerated cyclosporine very well and that it was extremely effective in reducing the kind of canine allergies that are brought about by over-stimulation of the immune system. Today many dogs live a normal life because of this medication that is marketed as Atopica. Off label use of medications is very common, doctors often find uses for drugs that have not been specifically tested. While there are significant regulations for doing this with human medications, veterinary science has a bit greater leeway. Thus Atopica or cyclosporine now plays a much greater role in canine autoimmune diseases. This use for autoimmune hemolytic anemia is "off-label" but has been clinically shown to be effective. The main reason this drug is so helpful with dogs is that the use of prednisone can be reduced and that reduces the very bad side effects of that drug. If a dog must be on long term immunosuppression, for longer than a month for example, it is wise to lower the dose of prednisone and add another drug to the protocol. Atopica is easy to dose because it is in capsules that are dosed according to a dog's weight. Generic cyclosporine can also be used, at a similar dosage. I personally am very thankful to Dr. Dodds for guiding my vets with this protocol. My dog had a very serious case of non-regenerative anemia and Atopica saved his life. Jean stayed with me by email for the several months it took to administer this medication and then reduce both it and the prednisone. Chance would not have lived otherwise. There are other drugs that can be used and you can read about them at Joanne's excellent website: http://www.cloudnet.com/~jdickson/treatment.htm I hope I have helped you understand the use of cyclosporine better. my best patrice

Patrice NYS

Kristin: Hopefully Patrice's explanation helps clear up your questions about Atopica and why it's used. From a "practical" standpoint - I am convinced this drug is what made the difference for our dog Sheba. When they first prescribed it for her we about choked when we saw what it was going to cost. She was taking high doses in the beginning and it alone was running approximately $300-$350 per month. Fortunately, we were able to afford it and we were willing to do what we could to save her. She took Atopica for nine months and it was the last one we weaned her from. She suffered some unfortunate long term/permanent side effects from the pred so in retrospect we are glad she was on both medications and we could wean her from the pred first without compromising her continued improvement. Today she is happy, relatively healthy (old age you know!), a 2+ year survivor with a respectable 43.9 PCV (tested Monday). I hope this also helps you and please know that we will keep Madchen in our thoughts and prayers. Rita, Mike and Sheba

Rita IA

Hey everyone, It's been awhile since I wrote something on here. I just wanted to let everyone know May's status. She currently is at 35 pcv, and doing really well. It's amazing how she has turned around, I must say it has been exhausting from the beginning to see her nearly almost not make it and now as time goes along to watch her get back to her normal self again. I started cooking for her several weeks ago and I must say she absolutely loves it! I do watch what I give her I cook her lean hamburger, boil chicken breast for her, carrots, peas, sweet potatoes, rice, and occasionally pasta. One recipe I do is I give her chicken, rice and carrots. Another I give her hamburger, pasta and peas. So by giving her good nutritional food it seems to be helping out. I feel as though from the love that she gets from me and my family it is helping her out tremendously. Thank you for all your love and support. Kristin

Kristin Pennsylvania

That's great to hear Kristin!! Tessy agrees...home cooking is mmmmmmm good! Good to hear an update. Hope all continues to go well for you and Madchen. Happy holidays, Johnny & Tessy

Johnny

Kristin, Isn't it funny the lengths we will go to for our dogs. Glad to hear your little girl is doing well. Merry Christmas! Penny

Penny Lytle Creek Calif

Kristin, How wonderful to hear Madchen is doing good! there are a few people on here fighting this that must be thrilled to hear this positive news. Some advice on the food you are feeding, be careful with the hamburger, it could be to much fat and cause pancriatitis. You could feed fish instead, preferably white fish. I would also stay away from too much grains (pasta & rice). The veggies you are feeding are great! maybe you could add a good source of omega 3. They are available fairly reasonable as an oil. Thanks for keeping us posted, we need these positive news! Best wishes, Brigitte & the poodle boys

Brigitte BC Canada

Hello Kristin, Be careful with the pasta as well. Dr. Dodds told me to never give Gracie( my cocker spaniel with IMHA) wheat, corn or soy. I have given her rice pasta but never wheat pasta. I just started cooking for Gracie as well after she got pancreatitis. She was in so much pain and it would be shame if Madchen would get that. It is so painful. My vet recommended the WD Hills Prescription diet but Dr. Dodds told me NOT to give that to Gracie. You are wise to cook for your pooch. Lots of love is very healing and Madchen is very lucky to have you and your family love her so much. Happy Holidays, Gwen and Gracie

Gwen Rhinebeck

Kristin~ Great news with Madchen! Gives me even more hope for the future with our Tori. We have had trouble with Pancreatisis, but after cutting down her fats and protien, she seems much better. If she has another bout of it, I plan to start cooking for her, too. What we do for our little doggies!!!! Happy New Year. Blessings, Cindi & Tori

Cindi PCB

Happy New Year to everyone, Tonight I made her lean 93/7 hamburger when I cook it i boil the hamburger and drain all of the fat out. I mixed in carrots and peas and rice. She loves it!! I use to give her W/D Hills canned food it was recommended by her vet and I cut that off completely I think its expensive it was coming out close to $3.00 a can (what a rip off) and also I believe the quality of it is terrible. May loves the food I make her. I will definitely watch the pasta that I give her. I haven't given her pasta in awhile but she loves the veggies. Honestly would rather cook for her then give her other crap that is in that canned food. Kristin

Kristin Pennsylvania

That's how I make Tessy's hamburger!!! Lean and boiled!! YES...the rx diet is a big time rip off!!! You could get creative and add sweet potatoes, green beans, scrambled eggs, etc. Good to hear things are going well for May! Johnny & Tessy

Johnny

This thread was discussed between 03/10/2010 and 31/12/2010

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