Canine Autoimmune Hemolytic Anemia (AIHA & IMHA) - Holly is home

Picked up Holly this morning. Dr told me that no hives, throwing up or blood stool. They did a cytology and notes say(NSF) and also a fecal sample collected for direct and that showed greater then normal amount of bacteria. Then I find out that they gave her a shot yesterday of I guess the Clemastine 1/34mg and also a pill last night. I am waiting for the Dr to call me back to find out why this was done. I found this out when paying and the receipt to the tune of $247.00!!! Just last Thursday we gave him $85 for her. We are so done with this vet! Gave us 20 pills of the Clemastine to give her 1 every 12 hours and 2 cans of Hill's prescription diet I/D dog food. She has been sleepy since coming home and I think from the Clemastine, but just a little while ago, she was breathing very fast and shaking, so don't know if this is a reaction or not. Anyone every use this Clemastine? Linda

Linda Sapphire

Here's a summary that I found....it is sedating and can cause side effects. The vet maybe should have discussd w/you as the central nervous system can be effected. I don't know if an IMHA dog is more sensitive than a 'normal' dog to this type of binding agent. If she is breathing rapidly and shaking perhaps you should put in a call before you give her another dose. Pharmacology Clemastine is an antihistamine with anticholinergic and sedative effects. Antihistamines competitively bind to histamine receptor sites, thus reducing the neurotransmitter's effects. Effects of histamine (which are countered by antihistamines) include: Increased capillary permeability Increased capillary dilatation Edema (i.e. swelling) Pruritus Gastrointestinal/respiratory smooth muscle constriction Clemastine inhibits both the vasoconstrictor and vasodilator effects of histamine. Depending on the dose, the drug can produce paradoxical effects, including CNS stimulation or depression. Most antihistamines exhibit some type of anticholinergic activity. Antihistamines act by competitively binding to H1- receptor sites, thus blocking the binding endogenous histamine. Antihistamines do not chemically inactivate or prevent the normal release of histamine. Clemastine is rapidly absorbed from the gastrointestinal tract and peak plasma concentrations are attained in 2-4 hours.

Jan philly

Linda, I have no scientific answer to your clemastine question. However my gut feeling tells me I would not give it to my dog unless there were still hives. Even then i would hesitate. From my experience with children and allergies, antihistamines suppress the immune system. Your dog already has a compromised immune system. Maybe that is why Holly has allergies? I don't know if an antihistamine is a good idea, especially since the hives are gone. I am curious what the vet said when they called. Best wishes, Brigitte & kahlu

Brigitte BC Canada

Thanks Jan, I was trying to find some information on it, but you nailed it. I have been in touch with Dr Dodds, originally yesterday the Dr said they would like to put her back on prednisone every other day and I said no to that. Dr Dodds said to start her on Temaril-P which is has a very low dosage of pred in it and mixed with the antihistamine. So I have another email into Dr Dodds to make sure that the Clemastine is okay of if should switch to the Temaril-P. I did talk with the nurse and really got more info from her then the Dr. Correction, there was no shot given yesterday, just a Clemastine at 8pm. Becasue she showed no signs of allergy down in their office, they wanted to prepare her for coming back into our enviroment as they believe something in our house/yard was causing the hives, vomiting and blood in stool. Also the reason for the Cytology was because they found greater then normal amount of bacteria in her fecal sample so they tested it further (Cytology) to make sure. She also said that hives will cause to vomit and have the runs as it upsets the whole inside of their body. We have been banging our heads against the wall to see anything different. The only thing that I can come up with is laundry detergent, that all their blankets, bedding and our bedding is washed in. Fab liquid have been using one scent for months and then about 2 weeks ago opened up a new bottle a different scent, other then this nothing new. Bridgett, trust me, we really hate this!!! But it is much worse seeing her with hives, vomiting and runny stools with some blood in them. She is just very tired tonight, but I doubt that she got much sleep last night in that cage without her blanket. Linda

Linda Sapphire

Temaril-P is a good choice. Have used it for Chance with his allergies since he had this anemia. I believe it has 2mg pred per tab. This seems to be a systemic (whole body) reaction and I doubt it is something you have directly caused. Take it easy on yourself. I would be thinking more along the lines of some bacterial or fungal toxin she has encountered. Has anyone else in your house felt like they have the flu? There are companies that will come to your house and assess things like the mold in your basement. Reducing the near-anaphylactic shock reaction she is having is very important, thus the strong antihistamine drugs. Better that she is comfortable and quiet. good luck patrice

Patrice NYS

Thanks Patrice. I just received emails from Dr Dodds, she is such a SUPER LADY! I love her as I do all of you! We are just like one big family. The Dr did tell me this morning that he wanted to try the Clemastine first and if that did not work then would go to the Temaril-P only because the Clemastine did not have Pred in it. Jean just said that sounded like a good plan and of course all antihistamines could have minor adverse effects. She also told me a big NO on the I/D canned or dry dog food because of the corn. They only gave us 2 cans and I saw on the label about the corn and that is what makes me so mad about our vet, he knows how long Holly has been fighting this disease. Just ignores the natural facts. So in the garbage that goes and back to her Natural Balance dog food. Everyone in the house has been fine, even our other little chihuahua is fine. After picking up Holly this morning I did go and pick up another de-humidifier for the basement as our other one konked out a few months ago and it is damp down there, but Holly never goes down there, but I do realize that it can travel upwards. This weekend we are steam cleaning all carpets in the house also. Thanks again everyone!!! Linda

Linda Sapphire

Linda: Our dog Sheba (GSD/Cocker Spaniel mix, 18 month survivor, 8 months meds free) takes clemastine for allergies. We usually have to start up in the spring (late March/early April) and give it to her into the fall. In fact, just today my husband and I were discussing when we should stop and decided today would be it. We give Sheba 1/2 a pill every 12 hours and haven't ever noticed any weird side effects other than it seems to dry out her nose a little. We hope Holly is feeling better soon! Rita, Mike and Sheba

Rita IA

Linda, I just read your latest posts on the AIHA board. It won't let me comment for some reason. I just wanted to check in with you, because a few things jumped out from your posts that are similar to issues we've had with Slinky (also a dachshund with IMHA). When Slinky came to us as a pup she had giardia and it took a while to beat that back. She was prone to bouts of diarrhea over the first year, with the only test results ever being excess bacteria. She would get better on bland diet, but the diarrhea would be back once she was weaned back to any kibble. Finally we had some luck with California Naturals chicken and rice (selected because it was higher in grain and more like the bland diets she had been fine on). She was on that for a long time (my other dog gets grain free kibble...it just always seemed too rich for Slink). Then she had the IMHA. I was able to switch her over to Wellness Core food, I forget if that was before or after the IMHA, but she's still on that and doing well. After the IMHA, she had a mast cell tumor. She did not have hives, but when they did a needle biopsy of the lump I'd found, she had a definite reaction to the release of histamine. She had surgery for the tumor which was on her side. She has a scar that runs most of the way from her ribs to her hip! The tumor grading came back good and she's been fine since then (that was nearly a year ago). At that point I contacted Dr. Dodds with Slink's full history...the parasites, bacterial overgrowth, food issues, IMHA, mast cell, and her vaccine titer results (she tests near zero for parvo and borderline for distemper). We then tested Slinky's Ig levels with Dr. Dodds. She is IgG deficient. Dr. Dodds felt that this could explain her history off immune system issues. There isnt really anything to do, but it gave me some comfort in knowing why every time I turn around this dog has a different immune system problem! I don't know what set off the hives and diarrhea in Holly, but it all sounded familiar. I just wanted to let you know to hang in there, deal with each problem and issue as best you can with the vets and it can still all work out! Slinky continues to amaze me by doing so well. I will always have fear and suspicion when she's sick or even just off, but sometimes I wonder if she won't shock me by making it to 20 :) Stephanie and Slinky

Linda (For Stephanie & Slinky) Sapphire

Thanks Rita, it helps to know others are also taking Clemastine and doing okay with it. Stephanie, Thanks also I will email you later, have to get to work. Holly is doing okay this morning and slept good last night, and last night before bed she did do two solid bowel movements, sbut becasue Dr Dodds said not to give her the Hill's I/D dog food because of the corn, we gave her some of the Natural Balance canned dog food for breakfast and this is not sitting well with her this morning, in fact she had an accident on the futon couch in my office and it was runny just like the dog food and then ran to the door and tried twice like she had to go outside but no luck. I think we are going to switch her off of the Natural Balance and go to the Wellness, have heard many good things about this, from Stephanie, and for those of you might remember Kathy & Mike Walker who have Grace, dachshund also, they feed her Wellness also. Thanks, Linda

Linda Sapphire

Good to hear Holly is rebounding from this setback. Keep up the good work with her Linda. Johnny & Tessy

Johnny

This thread was discussed between 01/09/2009 and 04/09/2009

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