Canine Autoimmune Hemolytic Anemia (AIHA & IMHA) - Help is Ruger in Liver failure???

Ruger has been fine all day. Eating, etc. Then tonight he ate his dinner (rather large dinner) and then he peed a large amount in the house which he has never done even with all of the prednisone he is on. His abdomen looks swollen but is this from all the food or something else? What are the signs of liver failure? What else could this be? He has peed in the house 3 times in the last hour, no control. He also poops a small amount each time I take him out. Last one seemed a little runny. I have a call into his vet. I am so worried. I do not have a great feeling about this. Hopefully it is just a large amount of food and water but ??? He has been stable for the last month but this is way out of character for him. Any insight is appreciated. Thanks

jaime parker

Jaime, This does sound out of character and, thus, a sign that something is wrong. A swollen abdomen is called ascites. The difficulty is that it can be caused by a number of different things including the heart, kidneys or liver. It is fluid that is "seeping" out of the vessels into the spaces of the abdomen. The fluid should not be allowed to gather like this and should be removed. They may want to try something simple first like lasix (a diuretic). The inability to control his bowel/bladder in this manner may be related to this or it may not be. In humans, if this occurs, it is a possible indication that a nerve in the lower spinal cord is being impinged or damaged, thus the loss of bowel and bladder control is considered a medical emergency in a human being because it is often related to the spinal cord. My knowledge of canine anatomy is not as great and I can't say for sure if this means the same thing in a dog or not. If this were me, I would want to know what to do from the vet. I would probably call my 24 hour clinic, conference with one of the overnight staff about whether they think he needs to be seen that night or can wait until the next day for an appointment. good luck patrice

Patrice NYS

His dr. doesn't seem as concerned as I am. She thinks it might be a UTI. I live an hour and a half from his vet and have a 15 month old and 3 yr old in bed so I will wait and take him in the am. He is on Clavamox. Can a dog get a UTI while on antibiotics?

jaime parker

yes, different types of bacteria. clavamox is used for skin infections, baytril usually for uti patrice

Patrice NYS

Jaime, Being on all the immune suppressant drugs makes Ruger very susceptible to UTIs. Once he is on the right antibiotic it should clear up pretty quick. I would suggest to do a urine culture, to make sure they put him on the right drugs. Hopefully this is only a bump in the road to recovery. Best wishes, Brigitte

Brigitte BC Canada

the culture probably will be screwed up because of the clavamox. ask your vet specifically about this before spending the money to have it done. p

Patrice NYS

Never thought of that, we keep learning as we go!

Brigitte BC Canada

Jaime, I am certainly not a vet nor do I play one on tv but Macy had a case of colitis and this happened to her. Is Ruger straining really hard when trying to poop? And then only a little comes out? If so, his colon may be inflamed. Macy peed in the house and had to poop literally every 1/2 hour when she had this. It was cleared up by some metranidozole in a few days. Not sure this is what Ruger has but figured I'd let you know. -Darren

Darren Long Beach

If it is E.Coli that is causing the infection chances are the clavamox will not alter the result. My Jacob was put on cipro.

Teresa va

Has his abdomin been swollen all along or did this just start? How's the urine look? Is it discolored? Large or small puddles? When you are at the vets ask them about switching to the Baytril. You have to remember though that Baytril is one of the harder antibiotics on hte system. Maybe you could have them run a chem profile to check his kidney values. I'll keep Ruger in my thoughts and prayers. Sending some "good news" vibes for your boy. Johnny & Tessy

Johnny

His abdomen has been swollen all along but hard to tell cause the predisone has him such a pot belly. Last night it got really big and hard. The urine was yellow, normal colored but huge puddles. Then 2 minutes later another huge puddle. Didn't even think he could hold that much urine. Lasted about an hour and then all of a sudden it just stopped, his belly looked smaller and he has been fine ever since. Weird?

jaime parker

Jamie, When Tiggs was on a high dose of Pred, he leaked huge puddles of urine constantly. I had to wrap him in diapers and lay him on towels, he just couldn't help it. I hope that this is nothing more than side effects, but it sounds like you definitely have to explore all possiblities. Hope everything is ok, keep us posted. melissa and tiggs

melissa slc

Perhaps you should consider feeding smaller more frequent meals for Ruger. Something very similar happened to Tessy when she over ate & drank one day. Her belly was HUGE and hard and she had a tough time trying to lay down or even be comfortable. She even had a pee while she was walking (or waddling) down the steps. Maybe it was all the pressure on the bladder....that might have been full. How's he doing now?

Johnny

Melissa, Thanks for the encouragement. I am hoping it is just the prednisone too. However, this is the first time he has done this and he has been on pred for awhile now. How long was Tiggs on a high dose? I so want to wean Ruger but the disease is still not stopped. They still see a few spherocytes on the slides. He is on 40mg pred a day. He has been on this dose or higher for 6 weeks now. Shouldn't the disease have stopeed by now? I so want to see his big block head again!

jaime parker

Jaime, all dogs are different with respect to how they respond to the therapy. You also got to remember that some drugs "can" take up to six weeks to start working. I bet they're seeing less destruction now though. Give it a little more time. With Tessy it took almost 4 months for it to stop. She was on high dose pred for almost 6-7 months. It had to be done. Are you giving Ruger Milk Thistle? The meds with food is also good to help protect the body.

Johnny

His Dr. has him on Denamarin (sp?) for his liver. I need to rsearch this more. I have not done milk thistle cause he is on this but perhaps if I gave him both it would help. The Denamarin is really expensive too. I take silymarin. Which is milk thistle. Is this the same stuff I can give him?

jaime parker

Jaime, Tiggs belly was so big too! He was on a high dose for several months, we were very conservative for a while (120 mg/day for a 64 lb dog). The side effects I think are so difficult to see, and can be worse then the disease itself sometimes. Johnny's right, every dog is different, try to continue to explore options for supportive nutrition and supplements- so many people here have good success with that. Bio Prep also has a lot of support here. Just keep communicating all side effects and concerns with your vet team, and remember to take it one day at a time. UTI's are very common as someone else mentioned, you can give cranberry's (either in dry form, or I think there are some pill supplements) to help the kidney's and bladder. Some folks here really experience the chronic bladder infections, it's part of the immune response being so suppressed and everything just being so compromised with the drugs. Give that big pot belly some extra rubs from us! melissa and tiggs

melissa slc

I've heard lots of good things on Denamarin. It's basically Denosyl and marin combined. It'll work as a protectant AND a detoxer (it'll help to "fix" the liver) whereas the silymarin is basically a pharma grade milk thistle extract (will mostly serve as a protectant). So...yes you could also give Ruger the silymarin but you have to be carefull the dosage. Milk thistle itself would be a much better product to use....probably for both you and Ruger. Denamarin would be best used if there is damage already done. ALSO, like Melissa was saying...cranberry extracts are really good for preventing UTI's. I've been giving htis to Tessy now for a few months and it's been controlling her chronic UTI's really well. ~~~~HUGS~~~~ Johnny & Tessy

Johnny

I am sure Ruger will be fine. I am putting out positive vibes for you and Ruger. I know nothing about the rest and can't comment. Take care.

Mardi Northern Calif

To Jamie and everyone else also: if your need it I have Cocos meds that had pretty much just been refilled before she passed and would be happy to pass them on. 50 mg azathioprine (11 tablets),20 mg predisone (37 tablets), Baytril 136 (22 tablets), Carafate(sucrafate)1 gr (22 tablets), 1/5 bottle of ranitidine 15 mg/ml. If anyone is needing them please let me know and I ship them to you....much love Kelly and Max and Tito(Cocos best buddies)

Kelly Redding

How's Ruger doing? Just sitting here wondering/worrying.

Johnny

I am happy to report that Ruger is doing quite well. After that episode stopped he went back to normal. He is eating well which is a good sign. He goes for his check up tomorrow. I have a good feeling. I think the disease has stopped. I so hope so because he really needs to get off this high dose of pred and start feeling like a dog again. I will update tomorrow. Thanks everybody for your support!!! It means a lot to me. Kelly, Thanks so much for offering the meds. Ruger is not on any of those except for the pred right now but I really appreciate the offer.

jaime parker

Jaime, is the liver doing better? Just wondering how the denamarin is working for ya.

Johnny

Johnny, He goes in tomorrow to get tested so I will let you know. His ALT is 1121! I just found out that normal is like 100!!! I sure hope it is down some!

jaime parker

Hello Jaime, I thought I would check to see if you had recieved Rugers results yet. Hope all is well...Kelly

Kelly Redding

This thread was discussed between 23/01/2010 and 28/01/2010

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