Canine Autoimmune Hemolytic Anemia (AIHA & IMHA) - Hanging water belly?

This AM I talked to the nurse to see how Kiki is doing. I have noticed that her belly is very swollen, even hanging like cow utters. The nurse said she gained another pound since yesterday--all fluids. So that's 4 pounds since this started. Anyhow, the nurse said she'll probably need more plasma, that sometimes when the proteins drop it causes them to hold fluid and get swollen. Have any of you had this with your doggies? When she walks, her belly waddles. I can't imagine feeling well with all that extra fluid and no wonder her breathing sounds horrible.

Kriss PA

Hi Kriss, I personally don't have experience with this, Tiggs did retain a lot of fluid and was very bloated, but not exactly like what you are describing. To me, it seems like they would want to drain it and add a fluid retention drug (?), but I am no vet, no expert. I hope someone here can give you some more insight, I do believe that some others here have experienced similar fluid issues. Keep us posted, melissa and tiggs

melissa slc

Kriss, I hope you can find out what's wrong here. I have no experience with this as well but have heard several things through this board. Have you had a chance to see or speak to a specialist yet? If it were me I would try to get another ultrasound done. This might show where the fluid is coming from. It's not uncommon for dogs with this disease to retend fluids, however I think it's important for the doctors to figure out the cause of this. At this point we do not want any more complications. An extra pound of fluid in only a day seems like quite a bit to me. Has she been peeing normally? Please keep us updated when you hear some news. I'll be praying for Kiki. Johnny & Tessy

Johnny

Kriss, Our dog, Lilly had a fluid filled abdomen. That was the original symptom that we took her to the vet for. They did an ultrasound and found nothing but slightly enlarged kidneys (that we only learned abt. after she passed). They never did figure out where the fluid was coming from. We asked abt. having it drained and were told they didn't want to risk infection from another poke. We took her to a different vet on her last day & she asked, in a concerned tone, how long her belly had been that big. Good luck and I'll be thinking of you on your journey.

Ann WI

Kriss, I had this happen with my dog, Ren. Her abdomen swelled up, huge with fluid. The Vet took x-rays and ultrasounds, seen it was fluid and withdrew a small amount to culture it. She suspected that it might have been blood from a hemorrhage. Thank goodness it was clear fluid. My Vet withdrew a large volume of fluid from Ren's abdomen via a syringe, Many CC's of fluid. This procedure may have saved Ren's life. I certainly am not suggesting that this procedure was typical. This was done as a last effort to save her life. Ren was so bad that her circulatory system was shutting down. Fluids were collecting in her legs and belly. It was a horrific sight. Her little belly was twice the normal size. The collecting fluids made it even the more difficult for her to breathe. Between the lack of red blood cells circulating and the fluid pressure on her heart and lungs, she struggled for every breath. Within a couple of days the fluids started building up again but thank God the meds started kicking in. It was a rough road and writing this again brings me to tears. Ren was so very sick, near death. With AIHA there are so many complications that go along with the obvious symptoms. I pray that Kiki recovers quickly. Sue & Ren

Susie Delaware

Kriss, I am so sorry to hear about Kiki. This must be very disheartening to see her like this. We all have so much pride in how our dogs look. It's *very* hard to watch them be uncomfortable. This is called ascites which is a fluid buildup in the abdominal cavity. It can be caused by a number of conditions. Your nurse probably knows quite a bit about emergency veterinary hospital care and her observation about a drop in proteins may be why this is happening. The body likes everything to be in a normal state. When things happen that cause something to be abnormal, many body systems will activate to attempt to return everything to normal. Control of fluids is very important because the body contains a lot of water. The blood plasma normally is at a certain percent of fluid. If it drops too low, the body may do everything it can to conserve fluid. If fluid starts "leaking" out of blood vessel walls it can go into the "interstitial" tissues and pool. If you know of anyone who suffers from swollen ankles when they are hot, this is similar. Abdominocentesis is where they drain the excess fluid out of the abdomen. Ask your vet if they need to do this if it does not resolve. There are certain conditions with the heart, liver or kidneys that can contribute to ascites. my best patrice

Patrice NYS

Hi Guys--Just got back from seeing her. She's getting plasma again right now. My vet did consult with an internal specialist, who said it's because of her proteins dropping. It's called 3rd spacing. She's got pitted edema in her legs now, as well. Right now we are on pins/needles. If it goes into the chest, she's gone. I've been in tears most of the afternoon. The specialist said if the plasma doesn't get her over the hump, that's really all the hope we have right now. He said keep plugging at it, every other day. Vitamin E and I think denamarin where added tonight, per his suggestion as well. She ate some cottage cheese for me, she seemed to love it. I boiled more chicken and rice for her, but she picked the cottage cheese. When I went in, she had a smorg before her. But with that darn ecollar on, I don't think she'd even attempt to eat. Her vet said as far as the autoimmune goes, that's stable. All the levels look good there. It's now the pancreatitis that is bringing her down. They're not sure if that kicked in after the autoimmune, or if she was starting with that first, and that threw her into the autoimmune. I told her that I was thinking about this: Today is 1 weak that I noticed her weak when she didn't come up to bed with me. But a few days before that, she vomited brown like 5 times, then was fine. So I don't know if that was the start of the pancreatitis then. My husband gave them all greenies the night before the vomiting (I have 6 pooches). Anyhow, I wanted to update you guys, and again, thank you all so much for being here on this board with your ideas, support, prayers, etc! xoxox

Kriss PA

Hi Kriss Please know that we continue to pray for Kiki, we think of her often and thank you for the updates. Kiki is lucky to have such a caring family and I have a feeling she knows how much she is loved. Cheryl & Ginger

Cheryl & Ginger Pineville PA

Kriss, please don't forget and check out the succsess stories on Joanne's website. http://www.cloudnet.com/~jdickson/successstories.htm without them, I think I would have gone over the edge. They gave me so much hope that my dog could get better. There are lots of dogs there, that were in awful shape and still made it. Don't let anybody tell you it is impossible. I will be thinking of you and Kikki. Best wishes, Brigitte & Kahlu

Brigitte BC Canada

Thank you Bridgette! (you made me cry again-but in a good way!) Kiki's transfusion is finished, she did well through it. The vet just called me (10pm). Of course my heart dropped when I saw the caller ID with the vet's number on it at this hour. I was beating myself up looking up things online, so confusing! The vet told me the computer is evil as I started questioning her on how I was feeding her high protein things, or trying to get her to eat after being told to do so. Online it says for pancreatitis not to feed her high protein things, and it also says not to feed for 1-5 days. So of course I was frantic because I've been trying to get her to eat, and high protein things. Anyhow, cuz her protein is low, and there is no vomiting, her doctor wants us to get her to eat. My eyes are so tired from crying, and it's been such a long week! I have to hit the sack. But wanted to say thank you for reminding me of the success stories!! Thanks for the prayers for my Kiki. I think this is way worse than when my cocker was diagnosed with lymphoma and going through chemo. He's doing super. I've been through heartache after heartache once each year for the last 5 years with my furkids. I lost one each year 3 years straight, then Skippy diagnosed with cancer, now Kiki with this. xoxo

Kriss PA

Kriss, You are in between a hard place and a rock, as the saying goes. AIHA is complex enough without having to learn about how to treat all the other things that might happen simultaneously. There is no way that an owner can possibly learn and apply all the information necessary to care for their dog in just a few weeks. If you have been thinking that you were doing something wrong, please ease up on yourself. It is so natural to want to get Kiki to eat, you were doing the right thing. I know your vet said the internet is "evil" but what I think he really meant is that there is a lot of stuff out there that isn't accurate and these sites are mostly .com sites, places that are trying to sell you something. Here is a link to a page about pancreatitis written by Mary Strauss. She is well known in the doggie world and publishes a monthly magazine called The Whole Dog Journal. She has spent many years collecting information about the health and nutrition of dogs. I think as you read this you will understand why there is a lot of confusion regarding the treatment of dogs with pancreatitis. You can follow or not follow any of her advice, as you wish, but I think it will make things clearer for you. http://www.dogaware.com/wdjpancreatitis.html I will be thinking about you and Kiki all day. patrice

Patrice NYS

That is so great that Kiki is through with her transfusion. Hang in there and be strong. The internet isn't all that bad...just think, you found us here. Without this site (and everyone on it) I think I'ld be lost. I don't even know if Tessy would be here with me right now. Tessy's doctor said the same thing to me about the internet....I think it's cause I'm driving them crazy with questions now. I really hope things start turning around for you. To have lost three dogs within 5 years, having one diagnosed with lymphoma and now this.....you are one tough person who obviously sounds dedicated to his animals. Anytime you need to vent or get anything out just write on here. There's always someone here to listen and give advise. Kiki is REALLY lucky to have you there for her. Give her some hugs from Tessy and I and know she'll be in my prayers tonight. Johnny & Tessy

Johnny

Hi Johnny--and Tessy---thank you! I now what you mean with the internet. And I am glad I found you guys!! The first pet I lost was Ashli, a 7 year old kitty who had cancer. It was the most horrible 3 months. Then my 13 year old shep/collie got a cancerous mass in his nose, not quite a year later. Those two were the best of friends. Then someone talked me into taking a 7 year old persian who looked like Ashli, and was supposed to be healthy. I agreed, without seeing her first, even though I wasn't ready emotionally yet. When they dropped her off, she was skin and bones, weighing not even 4 pounds. The day I got her she went straight into the vet, where she stayed for 4 days on nebulizers, she was so congested and snotty smelly green discharge. She died not even a year later from kidney failure. Then the following year my Cocker was diagnosed with Lymphoma. I actually collapsed when I was told--I just couldn't go through another loss again. We did the chemo, and he's been in remission. It's really hard. After my shep/collie mix died, we somehow ended up with 5 more dogs since then, plus the one we had. All rescues. It's sad. Back to Kiki. She lived in a cage in a garage for the first two years of her life before we got her. She's such a sweetheart, I can't imagine how anyone can treat a dog like that. UPDATE though!! This AM I went to see her, and I always make stuff hoping she'll eat, etc. I made some noodles and more boiled chicken. I stopped and bought different cans of food, and some turkey lunchmeat, and liverwurst--ick. Anyhow, I got a call around lunchtime saying she ate 3 bowls of the liverwurst!! yahoo! And..... her protein is up from 4 yesterday, to 4.6. She lost 8oz of fluids. She is now on lasix also, added lastnight or this AM. Her autoimmune is stable, it's the pancreatitis stuff they are trying to control. I believe 5.5 protein is a low normal, so we are trying to work our way to that.

Kriss PA

Kriss, So glad to hear that Kiki is responding better. You've certainly had more than your fair share of heartache, and as an ardent rescuer myself, I know the heartbreak of that as well. Your animals are all so lucky to have found you. Even though they have been through so much, and some of them haven't made it, just think of the gifts of love and stability you were able to give them, even though their time was cut short with you. It's still an awful burden. I hope that Kiki continues to improve. You are her angel, and she knows she is loved! I'm glad she is on lasix, I think that will help her overall comfort and healing. One day at a time, sweetie, you guys can do this! melissa and tiggs

melissa slc

Oh yeah--and when I went to see her around dinner time tonight, I took her out, walked her, brought her back in and fed her little bits of liverwurst and chicken. I bought her a new toy that she grabbed. And when I was leaving--I have it figured out now--she won't look at me when the nurse is hooking her up because she's mad at me for leaving! But when I went to close her cage door, she did a little nip thing at my finger--which means she's mad! So she's fighting again! She hadn't done that for a few days. Then she turned her head away with her cone, and I could see her watching me from the corner of her eyes. She's so cute and funny. Hopefully she will get over this hump. But today I had a few really nice visits with her where she was just so perky. She does tire fast, but I sat in the grass with her by my side and she seemed content. Sorry for rambling! I'm just so excited that it looks like she's trying to fight this.

Kriss

Thanks Melissa, for the kind words. People think I'm crazy (and my husband) for having so many. Sometimes I think we do have too many, just the guilt of not having more one on one time to share with them. They all have their own individual personalities, just like our 3 boys do. I just am not very strong when it comes to losing them, and I say never again. Then we end up with not one more, but 5 more, lol. My husband is as bad as I am. If he sees a pet in need, he will take it and help it. 2 weeks ago we had to put our gerbil to sleep, guess who wanted to be there for the procedure. (not me) Ugh! He was attached to him cuz he cleaned him most of the time, and held him alot.

Kriss PA

This thread was discussed between 19/05/2009 and 21/05/2009

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