Canine Autoimmune Hemolytic Anemia (AIHA & IMHA) - from pale gums to weird breathing...

Hello again. Here we are, less than 16 hours later... The way they can change so fast can be encouraging... but depends on which way they are changing. This am in my first post, Popeye seemed fine (except pale gums). I worked late, checked him about 10pm, which was also dinner time for all four of our dogs. My husband fed them and noticed he seemed a bit weak. (and gums still bad). He ate his food, but with a bit less enthusiasm than usual. That is not normal around here, with our multiple dogs eating at same time. He noticed that the dog was starting to breath a bit abnormal, a subtle panting for no logical reason. And his heart felt like it was beating faster for no reason as well. Being so late at night, didn't know what to do. He has been on a dose of 5mg of Pred. - 1x daily, since his last good check up approx. 8-10 days ago. Everything was going so well, I stopped writing so detailed in my notes of his condition. I went ahead and gave him an extra 5mg of Pred. about 30 minutes ago. (so he has had 10 mg in last approx 16 hours). Do I need to be more aggressive with the Pred. dose? I guess we'll go to vet in am. Our good friend the vet has been great to us as far as doing all of this for his "cost". That is a big help. I am afraid because our vet said that "if the dog should relapse, that he probably would not "make it"." My vet is a good vet and friend but I don't think he is in the right mind set to do everything under the sun to cure Popeye. Pop has never been transfused or had many of the meds I've read about here. I am going to bed, fearing that I will wake up to a very sick dog. He appears to be right on the edge of what brought him down the first time. And my vet's words about relapse will not leave my head. I feel bad because I cannot really afford to seek another opinion that may lead to a variety of tests and procedures. But I'll feel really bad if I don't find a vet with a more proactive protocol than the one I have and I end up loosing Pop because of it. I know I could loose him either way....and I just feel so helpless because this stupid condition. And that makes me angry. Thanks for letting me vent.

Allison TX

Allison: Please don't give up on Popeye. Please continue to get him the best medical care that you can afford. And, please keep a watchful eye on him. I apologize for not remembering when Pop was first stricken with this disease. Shadow (my terrier mix) was stricken exactly six weeks ago. Today, she showed her first clinical sibn of really improving. (She'd had a rise in her pcv of .9% after her last (third) transufsion, but, a week later her pcv fell 2%. Today, it rose 7% - not an anomaly explained (as the vet tried to dismiss the 2% drop - by the testing machine.) Although Shad and I are newcomers, only having been dealing with AIHA for six weeks, I feel as if we are old pros. She has good days - followed by bad days. But, the numbers don't lie (at least, I choose to believe that today's numbers don't lie). So many times in the last six weeks (seems like a lifetime), I wanted to give up and give her peace: with the numbers she posted today, I'm so glad I didn't. I know Texas is BIG (it's my home state) and that you can live many, many, many inconceivable, inconvenient miles from a specialist if you live in Texas. Utah (where Shad and I live) isn't all that big (geographically speaking) - but Shad and Ilive in the middle of "nowhere" Utah and have to drive 180 miles west (across town, by Texas standards, to Salt Lake) or 380 miles east (to Fort Collins, CO) to see a specialist. We spent more time on the road during the first three weeks of her disease than we did at home (my apologies to Shad's "brothers".) But, it's worth it. Shad's local vet (who gives Shad her routine blood tests and "talks" to the specialists in Salt Lake City and Fort Collins) came into the waiting room of her (and her partners') small clinic (where their "cash cow" IS a cow; they make their money off of large animals) with the proverbial "ear-to-ear" smile and asked, after she'd run Shadow's tests, and asked, "Are you ready to do the happy dance for Shadow"?? The numbers that "needed" to climb had climbed; the numbers that needed to fall had fallen. In my experience, it's never a good time to say "never", But, you know Popeye better than I. And, he'll tell you if he's had "enough" and is too tired to fight this horrible disease any more. My younger - by 10 years, so she was almost my baby - sister told me two years ago that she was tired of fighting her congestive heart failure, and just wanted to die. As her medical power of attorney, I had no choice but to hold Sue's hand, tell her I understood and loved her, then watch her "pass". You have more power than that with Popeye. He's entrusted you with his life, his well-being and his welfare since the day he came to live with you. You wouldn't be on this forum if you didn't choose to use Pop's power wisely. Trust your gut. Popeye does. And, he might trust you to know that he's saying, "I can't do this anymore." Or, he might trust you to know that he's saying, "I can do this as long as you can, Mom." Only you - who has special communication skills with Popeye - will know what he's saying, how he's directing you to carry out his wishes. PLEASE continue to keep us all posted on Popeye's and your situation. We care about you BOTH! Shadow's dancing a "happy dance" in tribute to Popeye. Please be sure to tell him her dance is not "in memory" of Pop, but in honor of him and his (continued) good life. Where's the party? At the rainbow bridge! Because, even if we and our dogs are lucky enough to escape the scourge of AIHA, we will all die. My fervent hope and prayer is that we will meet at the "rainbow bridge". I know, from vivid dreams, that Toby, Buffy, Tucker and Dad are waiting for me there. I just want all of you, and who's dogs who have been touched by AIHA, to be there as well. I'm old - so I'll get to the "bridge" before the rest of you. Rest assured: I'll pet them, comfort that "special" place behind their ears; and remind them that "mom and dad" are coming "soon", and in the way that they get to tell time at the Rainbow Bridge, that's no time at all! Only you will know what Pop's best wishes are. Love and best wishes. Shad, the boys and I are praying for you and the Pop-ster (and his dad, your husband) all the time. Sandy & Shadow

Sandy Utah

Allison, They do have good and bad days but even so I would try to get to the vet. Its always better to be safe than sorry. Thinking of you and good luck, Jackie and Jasper

Jackie pembrokeshire; west wales; uk

Inappetence, panting, tachycardia, usually means there is a process going on related to the AIHA. Could mean that the hct count is dropping. Get a quick pvc from your local vet and see what the number looks like. Popeye may need a transfusion if the rbc number is significantly lower than last check. Unfortunatley the pred is not a cure-all and in fact as you are surmizing probably has to be adjusted from tme to time. But before you increase the pred 50% on your own it's best to find out the clinical reason why he has experienced a setback. We all know your concern with the cost factor. My boy is a 14 month patient at this juncture and has required 4 blood transfusions. I had to take out a loan as I did not have the thousands and thousands of dollars it has cost to date. Many teaching hospitals (where the transfusiins are usually given) do have payment plans. Cost factors for this disease are incredibly high. The vets and vet schools don't do a lot to encourage average people to continue treating their pets with the prices they demand. It is an industry that is not regulated. If you are pleased with your local vet's care but are concerned about his knowledge base....teach him what you are learning on this board. Tell him you want a cbc done right away and let him know you are talking with a group of pet owners whose pets are survivors and this condition does not translate into a death sentence. If Popeye's hct is very low and he requires a transfusion find out the location of the nearest teaching hospital. If the transfusion is necessary that will be important in extending Popeye's life. If it is not necessary you can discuss uping the pred and possibly adding another med such as cyclosporin or imuran. Wishing you the very best, Jan

Jan philly

Thank you guys. It's 9:00 am here and he has definately gone down hill overnight. He's resting right beside his water bowl. (the thirst is back). We have a call in to our vet friend and plan on going there within the next 2 hours.... Can someone point me to the most complete, yet concise, best info/advanced treatment protocol, that I could print out quickly and give to him this am. I just need to get him going in the best new direction. (the vet), and of course Popeye. My vet has never tried anything other than the Prednisone........ Husband said he just got worse. I'll get back soon..

Allison TX

Allison, I don't think anyone can give you the "most complete, yet concise, best info/advanced treatment protocol" since each dog responds to the disease differently and the medications used to treat it. But for most dogs it does take more then just prednsione to get them into remission. First of all you really need to get a CBC (complete blood count) done to see what is going on. Also it might be very helpful to get a chemistry profile. Many times vets will replace prednsione with dexamethasone since dex is said to be 5-7 times more potent then prednisone. You can learn about dexamethasone at this Web site: http://www.marvistavet.com/html/dexamethasone.html The other two drugs that are now used most often with predisone are Azathioprine sold under the brand name Imuran and Cyclosporine. However it can take up to 6 weeks to see a clincal response with Azathioprine while Cyclosporine does tend to "kick in" faster. Also if the hct is in the low to middle teens a blood transfusion might be necessary. I disagree with what your vet said that "if the dog should relapse, that he probably would not "make it"." My Meisha had many relapses and she pulled through them fine. Also I have seen many other dogs relapse and they too have come out of the relapses. It sounds to me like you really need to seriously consider another vet who is more hopeful and willing to try other options. There are so many vets who give owner/caregivers of AIHA/IMHA dogs so little hope because of their own lack of knowlege about the disease. At the very least have your vet consult with a veterinary teaching hospital or a veterinary internal medicine specialist. I know this is so hard but please hang on to hope. I am keeping you all in my thoughts and prayers.

Joanne MN

Thanks JoAnne! We are leaving to vet in a few minutes. I have been writing down notes from treatment page at Meisha's Hope site. My vet usually does an in office blood test for PCV. A CBC is most likely going to be sent out to a lab - right? I'm going to give him instruction based on your suggestions and what I read. What specifically will he look for in CBC and chem profile? Thanks

Allison TX

It all depends what kind of equipment your vet has. My vet has the equipement to process CBC's and chem profiles "in house". With Meisha and now with Maddie who has some health issues we always arrive early for the appointment, have the blood drawn and the results are ready by the time we see the vet. With one of my former vets he sent the blood for CBC's and other tests out do Las Vegas of all things. That was enough to make me leave him, that and his ego. The vet should be looking over all elements of the blood in the CBC including the red cells, white cells, platelets and reticulocyte. He might also want to look at a smear under the microscope. The chem panel/profile will show how liver and other organs are fuctioning. Most times a consult can be done as a veterinary courtsery and will not cost you anything. My vet consulted with numerous speicialsits on behalf of Meisha and I was never charged for any of the consults.

Joanne MN

Allison, good luck at the vet's. Please keep us posted as to Popeye's progress. I agree with the others on this thread that if possible, you should seek out a vet or specialist who is experienced with AIHA and time is really of the essence. I'm thinking of you. deb and Duck

Debbie BC Canada

i agree with the notion that a specialist should be seeked out. this is a very in depth disease that needs to be treated proactively. as far as the breathing patterns etc. my dog also has ups and downs where her breathing completely speeds up and then slows down and normalizes again, it comes and goes but sometimes it makes us worry alot. hang in there and i wish popeye the best

josh california

My dog has had another relapse. Second one, my vet sent me to emergency hospital for another transfusion. They now tell me that there are problems with her liver and kidneys. There were no problems previously. I blame all the medication she is on. They think meds had nothing to do with it. She now is getting plasma and perhaps another red blood transfusion. I just can't let her go and will try anything. They are taking this day by day. I don't know what to do. She is given prednisone and many anti biotics along with anti nausea meds,and things to protect her stomach. Ultra sound is the next step and IM specialist will look at her in the next couple of days. Please tell me that there is still hope for her and this is not just in vain.

maria northern VA

Maria, I am so sorry that your poor dog has relasped. What is her name? I think we all choose to fight as long as we know that our dogs are up to it too. You never know what the next day will bring. For a lot of us who have had to give up the fight, our dogs let us know when. I can't really describe it and hope you do not have to know it for a long long time. Please start a new thread so more people will see your post. Keeping you in my thoughts and prayers. Penny

Penny Lytle Creek Calif

This thread was discussed between 01/12/2007 and 31/12/2007

Canine Autoimmune Hemolytic Anemia (AIHA & IMHA) forum index

This thread is from the Vetnet archive. The live Vetnet forum is active now.