Canine Autoimmune Hemolytic Anemia (AIHA & IMHA) - Flea/tick prevention while on meds

The vet at U of I said we needed to be sure to keep up with Buster's flea and tick prevention because they are not sure if maybe a tick could have caused his IMHA. My local vet seems to think we should wait for now. I hate to give him more chemicals when he is sort of overloaded at the moment. What is the opinion on this? We live in the country, so ticks can be a problem. At the moment, Buster is being watched like a hawk when outside. He does his business and he comes right back inside. I am having a problem letting him just be a dog.

Ronda C. Illinois

Ronda, Wylie usesa the preventic collar and wore it when she was on meds. I out the collar on her late this year and she got very sick in both Dec and Apr with THromboceptemia and teh vet suspects she got a tick disease since she responded so fast to being on doxy so I would not overlook it, can't ehlp on the flea ? good look Laurie

Laurie CA

That's a tough one for sure!!! This is going to be something that only you can decide. You'll have to take in all the factors and issues of course like are there lots of ticks in your area. Does Buster frequent areas that are known for ticks. Arethere lots of fleas? etc. etc. etc. This is one of the toughest decisions one has to make other than the initial treatment decisions for this dang disease! If it were me I'd avoid them for now and just keep a really watchfull eye on Buster and avoid wooded areas or tall grassy areas. I know you want him to "be a dog" but in order to do that he has to get his health back first. That should be first and foremost on the agenda. NOW, if you do decide to use chemicals on your dogs there ARE ones that are better than others. In my opinion I would steer clear of the systemic preventables (ones where the chemical used enters the blood stream...the flea or tick bites first BEFORE it dies) and go with a non-systemic topical. Options...if need be. (chemical route only) Heartworm and other parasites: Interceptor Fleas & Ticks: Vectra or frontline or advantage NOW, these are chemicals...gotta remember that and these can very easily lead to a bad response if given. I've heard of people that crate their dogs for the first day to minimize contact but that's optional. There are several natural approaches you can take. I've heard of lots of people who use diatomaceous (sp) earth in their yard AND on their dogs. Google this and you'll learn all kinds on it! There's also things like "Skin So Soft" that you can rub on the areas the dog can't lick....I use this for Tessy and it seems to ward off ticks and fleas....and makes her smell PURRRRDDYY!!! Sentry's Natural Defense....an essential oil that supposedly works great. Very strong so you don't have to use much! There are others yet but I can't think right off hand. Hopefully others can chime in with what they think. OH...and NEVER EVER vaccinate again!!!! EVER!!! AGAIN, this is a tough decision and only one YOU can make based on if you think it's really needed. Johnny & Tessy

Johnny

Ronda: This is one of those personal decisions we have all struggled with. Sheba was diagnosed with IMHA in April 2008. Living in IA we also have to deal with fleas and ticks - especially ticks. We chose to use prevention products but we were also very confident that they were not the trigger for her IMHA. Now we choose to only treat her in the "prime" season so she gets both heartworm and flea/tick preventatives April thru November. We dose her several days to a week apart just to give her system a little break. This has worked for us but I know for others they've had to stop using these types of preventatives altogether. Whatever you ultimately decide - don't let anyone second guess you. Buster is your dog and you know what's best for him! Rita, Mike and Sheba

Rita IA

I just heard of an AIHA dog that had a bad reaction to Vectra the other day. This dog's anemia wasn't triggered by preventatives. The vectra (which I'd consider one of the more safer topical apps to use) caused him to have a seizure and made the crit drop over 10 points!!! No word on how the crit is doing today though.

Johnny

Hello. I have not posted for quite a while, but I felt compelled to write. If you reearch/read the archives under 'Frontline' you will see the many and varied posts over the years written by pet owners who have had catastrophic results from flea control products. If you do not already know it, please do some research and realize that the (main) chemical in the products are pryethrins... strong pesticides. Pesticides are toxic. There is no doubt about this fact. These products should be banned for use on pets and in the home. It has been established that incidents from these products have been on an alarming increase year after year. In 2008 alone over 120 incidences per day of death and damage were reported to the EPA from manufacturers. The actual numbers are much higher as many people do not report adverse reactions to the manufacturers/EPA. This is an epidemic. The product manufacturers have failed to prove that the spot on product(s) remain on the sebacceous glands and do not infiltrate the pet's system. They basically dare you, as a consumer to go against a powerful, politically motivated multi billion dollar profit making industry to challenge them. You can't. I have written many posts over the years on this site. I hope I have helped some folks understand more about my experiences with Frontline and my subsequent correspondence with the EPA. I am fortunate. My pet survived AIHA.....$10,000 in vet bills and many years of weekly RBC checks and treatment on immunosuppresents, my boy is med free and appears healthy. I watch him constantly, checking cautiously as am not certain of the future. To read more about consumers' pets' adverse reaction experiences with flea control products go to the website. www.biospotvictims.org. Be very cautious, Rhonda. There is minimal time to turn back once you administer these chemicals. You couldn't give me a million bucks to EVER use these products again. Jan

Jan Phila

Gee, I haven't been here for ages, but I will add what I do. I lost my 2 yr old to AIHA 3 years ago, and have currently 3 healthy dogs. I will not use anything on them. I treat heavily the yard outside our dog pen-I spray the grass and woods with Triazanon(sp) and sprinkle diatomaceous earth around my dog pen. I do not use anything in the pen, just outside. We keep the grass cut short, obviously. We take walks on the street, they do not go into the woods. We(the 2 leggeds) get more ticks than the dogs because we are in the woods more. Last year I only found 2 ticks, and this year 2 more. I do worry because in my area 50% of the deer ticks test positive for Lyme, but I refuse the Lyme vaccine also. We always see deer in our woods, so I know they are there. I also check the dogs daily. Haven't had any issues with fleas in years. While battling the AIHA, I learned the risk vs benefit with everything we did, and I feel that this approach has the minimal amount of risk for my dogs, but yes, there is still some risk. My friend's yorkie just got diagnosed with Lyme, but she has found many ticks on her dogs this year-they run all over her property, she is trying to convince her husband to do what we do-just keep the dogs in a pen. Good luck with what you decide. If I had to use a product, it would be a natural one-I have also heard that the Sentry Natural Defense has had toxic side effects.

Sandy NH

Jan, wasn't it the Frontline Plus that was linked to most cases? I can't really remember. I think most topicals DO go systemic...even if a little. I do, however, think they are much better than the systemic ones. I've also heard of adverse reactions to the Sentry product but usually this was from people who didn't dilute the oil. I think the probelm is the double edged sword. Sometimes people HASVE to use some sort of protection. I'm with you guys though in that I'll NEVER use any of these chemicals on ANY of my dogs BUT I do realize the need for people to use some sort of preventative. It would have to be dire circumstances though before I would even consider putting a chemical on my dog! The last time I was into the vet with Tessy was a few weeks ago when she had a battle with pancreatitis and she puked in the exam room. The doctor took out a chemical air freshener and before I could tell what she was doing she had the room sprayed with the stuff!!! I wasn't too impressed with it! I had to leave the room it was such a strong smell! Anywho, just wanted to say that IF anyone does decide to use these chems on their dogs to be smart about it and choose the best one for your dog.

Johnny

Thanks everyone. I think I will forgo the flea and tick preventative for now. We have worked to hard to get where we are with him. I don't think I want to take the chance right now. We'll deal with this issue if/when it becomes an issue. He likes the air conditioner anyway.

Ronda c. Illinois

Here is a very significant opinion sent to the EPA by the Human Society of the United States (HSUS) voicing their concern about spot-on products. The EPA has recommended better labeling and other 'slap on the wrist' punishment for the product manufacturers. But the EPA is not doing enough. The HSUS makes that clear in part of their comments.....please read. To read all of the comments respnding to the EPA's mitigation plan for public opinion go to....http://www.regulations.gov/search/Regs/home.html#docketDetail?R=EPA-HQ-OPP-2 010-0229 4. HSUS/HSVMA Recommended Precautions Beyond EPA Mitigation Plan While we support the significant improvement of spot-on product labeling, including the use of species-specific pictograms and tighter weight ranges, we believe these changes do not go far enough in preventing the possibility of adverse effects and the consequent suffering cats and dogs have experienced due to the application of spot-on products. Based on a review of the information made available in March 2010 via the webinar on spot-on products and their adverse effects convened by the EPA, documents available on the EPA website, and research conducted by the National Resources Defense Council (NRDC) on the chemicals used in these and other flea and tick products, we recommend the following additions to the mitigation plan: • Generally speaking, we recommend that a precautionary approach be the guiding principle in evaluating the safety and efficacy of spot-on ectoparasite pet products. That is, begin by assuming that pesticide products, by definition, may be harmful to companion animals until proven otherwise. Therefore, always encourage consumers to exercise significant caution when using these products on their pets. • Consumers typically assume that over-the-counter medications or products are safer than prescription-only pharmaceuticals. Clear acknowledgement should be made on packaging and in product inserts that these spot-on products are pesticides, and not medications. • We recommend that statements appear on the products stating that consumers should consult with their veterinarians before using them regarding the necessity for ectoparasite control, the spectrum of such control, and the appropriateness of particular spot-on products in the context of the overall health, welfare and lifestyle of the companion animal. • Additionally, we recommend statements to the effect that regular vet care for their pets should be sought by consumers of spot-on products in order to reaffirm the medical appropriateness of their continued usage. For example, these products may be contraindicated in cases of particular illnesses, especially those involving the dermal, gastrointestinal and neurological systems--which have been identified by the EPA itself as the systems most negatively impacted by these products in incident reports--and the immune system. • Because an animal has visited a veterinarian within the past year and appears to be clinically healthy does not guarantee the pet’s health. There can be underlying renal or hepatic abnormalities which may manifest only upon laboratory blood and urine analyses. Cardiac or respiratory abnormalities are often first discovered during auscultation with a stethoscope. By its own admission the EPA notes that “…many cat owners estimate their cat’s weight and do not know the actual weight.” We believe this is generally true for many dog owners as well. In order to dose these products safely and effectively current pet weights must be known before usage. An accurate current pet weight is best obtained in the context of a veterinary visit prior to application of a spot-on product. Furthermore, the EPA, in referring to a canine permethrin product, states that “…this product is sold by veterinarians with a resulting high compliance rate for proper use…” We believe higher consumer compliance rates for proper use of all over-the-counter spot-on products will also best be achieved via regular veterinary consultations before usage. • Finally, we recommend that professional education bulletins about spot-on products, including the demographic profiles of animals historically most effected (Small-breed dogs, less than 3 years old, weighing between 10-20 pounds and domestic short hair cats between 5-15 pounds) be regularly distributed to veterinary professionals in timely print and/or on-line formats.

Jan Phila.

!!!!!Don't get me going on HSUS!!! They're almost as bad as PETA IMO! I agree though that there should be more info available and more warnings placed on ALL products. Do they even make BioSpot anymore? EPA also....do they even do their job halfthe time? LOL

Johnny

Our UPenn vets were clear that tick bites were a main trigger for AIHA, and I have had Kola on year-round Preventic collar at their recommendation without a problem. They advised against Frontline - so we go with no flea prevention. I hold my breath and give Interceptor for heartworm during the summer months, since mosquitos are very common in PA. No problem so far with that either. Its all about risk-benefit ratio, and deciding where you stand on it. Lots of things in life are like that though, if its any consolation.

Leslie

Below are comments that were submitted to the EPA by Beyond Pesticides in response to the EPA's evaluation of pet spot-on products and risk mitigation plan) EPA-HQ-OPP-2010-0229-1153.1.pdf

Jan PA

Flea Away and Doc Ackermans and Natural Chemistry were recommended on my dog forum for flea/tick prevention. I have not used any of them, but some rave about the Flea Away, and a holistic vet I have dealt with recommends the Doc Ackermans.

Sandy NH

My 9 year-old Maltese has been diagnosed this week with IMT- non hemolytic / Evan's syndrome. Abby was severely anemic and the er gave her a blood transfusion. Her platelet count did not improve. They have her a second and we have not seen any improvement yet. She is on the drug regimen: Azent.., steroids and stomach protectants plus every other day blood tests.I am so worried. This came out of the blue. Abby had a seizure and we rushed her in when she had another shortly after. What questions should I be asking the Docs? We do not have a lot of funds. We want to do our best for Abby, but this is so scary. When should we start seeing improvements with the meds? What about Vincristine? Any experience?

Rebekah Michigan

This thread was discussed between 04/06/2010 and 13/06/2010

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