Canine Autoimmune Hemolytic Anemia (AIHA & IMHA) - Firework fears

My Ern is a bit of a timid and neurotic little boy, he gets easily upset by many things but fireworks are the worst, he's absolutely terrified of them. I started using a D.A.P (dog appeasing pheromone) diffuser a couple of years ago which helped a bit. Then they produced a DAP spray, which is handy for using to calm him in the car. Again I'd say it definitely helped. About a month ago someone told me the latest product is the DAP collar, same concept as a flea collar. It's impregnated with the pheromone and lasts about a month. I got one for Ernie and put it on him as soon as it arrived. The results have been astounding. He doesn't show any fear of fireworks, he might be a bit startled if there's a sudden bang but he doesn't go into panic about it. He's also much calmer about going in the car and hasn't been sick since having his collar. I know many of you have dogs that are scared of fireworks, and especially when they're ill we don't want them stressed if it can be avoided. The DAP collar is well worth a try and I'll definitely be ordering another one for Ern to get him over all the christmas fireworks. Sue

Sue Northants UK

Hi Sue, Thank you for the info. My Jacob is TERRIFIED of fireworks and thunderstorms. The strange thing is that this just became an issue over the last few years. He knows a storm is coming before I do. He will start pacing and when the storm finally arrives he hides out in the bathroom (no windows). I turn on the exhaust fan and turn the tv up to try and drown out the sound as much as possible. He is one smart boy though because he doesnt have to hear it...he simply senses it. My biggest fear is that he will give himslef a heart attack because he literally shakes. Teresa

Teresa va

FIREWORKS!!! Sue, where can you buy these collars please? Trixie also hates fireworks. Unfortunately the fireworks are not just set off on 5th Novemeber, it's the weeks building up to it and also after that date. It's the same with the New Year! It's bad enough our dogs have to put up with this and even more so when they are unwell, fireworks is the last think they need. Tricia x

Tricia Sth West uK

I get mine here - http://www.vetuk.co.uk Just put 'dap collar' in the search box, they do them in 2 sizes.

Sue Northants UK

Sue Thanks so much for this information. I just finished ordering my collar. My Golden Cody is afraid of thunder, fireworks, chainsaws and lawnmowers. We have tried just about everything so hopfully this will help it is certainly worth a try. Thanks again for sharing this information.

Cheryl Pineville PA

I am curious having looked at some sites to see what the DAP is made from, The package says dog appeasing pheromone 2.5% inert ingredients 97.5 % I know mother dogs secrete this naturally but where do they get it for these collars and what are the inert ingredients? I guess I am just really paranoid now days.

Penny Lytle Creek Calif

Glad to hear people are having such great results with the DAP collars. I actually work for CEVA (the company that produces DAP) and although I am probably very biased (!) the product is great. We've had such lovely reports from people that have said that it's worked wonders. We're currently working with rescue centres to help the stressed dogs there and maybe in the future dogs will be rehomed with collars. The Dog Appeasing Pheromone that is in the collars is literally just a chemical replication of the natural dap from the bitch. This is a common question. I think people are concerned that we keep lots of female dogs in a 'milking station set up'! The inert ingredients are just a carrier similar to the alcohol in the diffuser preparation. The carrier when warmed allows the pheromone to dissipate into the environment. This is why it's important the collars sit close to the neck so that the warmth causes the pheromone release. The collars are not at all toxic an can be combined samply with flea treatments and spot ons. Any more questions please ask. I am a DAP geek!

Naomi London

The collars are not at all toxic an can be combined samply with flea treatments and spot ons. Any more questions please ask. I am a DAP geek! forgive me, of you didn't already know, but the spot on's (flea products) ARE toxic. My pet is where he is today an AIHA patient of 14 months and $9,000 due to FRONTLINE. They (the company that produces this harmful product) also say the product is not toxic. Actually they tell whowever calls to report in an adverse effect (which are numerous) THEIR pet is unusual to have suffered such a reaction!!! 'just a carrier similar to the alcohol in the diffuser preparation' Would have to know more about this vague description before I would consider using. I have learned a LOT about the importance of RESEARCHING myself and not taking anyone's word for any product base. sorry, but I will never be a believer again in any treatment, chemical or otherwise without have full scope explaination of an ingredient base. Jan

jan philly

so yes...my Corgi that DOESN'T have AIHA is very timid and afraid of everything... Should I be concerned about a reaction to the chemical in these collars in my AIHA dog, Paris? Inquiring minds....and thanks!

Joe Commare Massachusetts

Naomi.. You have to realize that almost everyone on this forum has a dog, or has lost a dog to Hemolytic Anemia. No one knows for sure, but we all see a common link between the onset of the disease and vaccinations, flea medications or Heartguard administration. Some lose their pets in a few days or weeks regardless of the amount of medications, transfusions etc they provide for their animals. Others are fighting the disease 24/7 for many months and years. I doubt any of us will give our dogs anything that we are not 100% sure would not harm them or cause a relapse. Being so "cavileer" and linking your product for use along with "flea spot" etc. is not what we want to hear regardless of any possible benefit....Ron

Ron B San Mateo

Looks like I opened a whole can of worms here, which was never my intention. Before using the DAP collar on Ernie I considered the question of chemicals and possible risks, but I guess we all have to make individual choices for our pets. We can only make what we believe is the best decision with the information we have at the time. A lot of the time we will never KNOW for certain what the right decision is. There are so many 'suspect' causes for AIHA, some of us may be pretty sure in our own minds what did it but I guess that like myself most of us will never have a clue. Anyone who suspects that their dogs AIHA is linked to chemicals or vaccines is going to be understandably concerned about using anything like the DAP collar. In Ernies case there was no exposure to vaccines, flea treatments, or any other chemicals around the time his illness started. Other risk factors I've seen mentioned are: 1) neutering - he was neutered 7 months before his diagnosis. 2) Stress - He's a fairly neurotic dog who gets upset about ANY changes in routine. If I take one of the other dogs to the vet Ernie will panic and go mad til they come back. If I put his food bowl in the 'wrong' place he'll refuse to eat his breakfast until it's moved. etc etc I'm never going to know for sure what caused his illness but in his case I feel that stress is a more likely cause than any chemical exposure. Therefore I had to weigh the risk of using the DAP collar against the stress he would suffer by NOT using it. There's no doubt that it does wonders for keeping him calm and he's coping incredibly well considering the amount of fireworks we've had round this area. I'm not an expert and I know that nothing is ever 100% risk free but I feel that I'm making the best choice I can for MY dog, compared to the alternative of having him constantly terrified for the next 2 months. I strongly feel that there are no rights or wrongs here, we all have to do what we think is best for our dogs on an individual basis. We all want the same thing in the end, we all want our beloved dogs happy and healthy again. Sue

Sue Northants UK

Sue, I hope you did not feel that this was an attack on you. I agree we all must make decisions based on out own dogs, our own research etc. I am sure we all would like to go back to the days when we had a pet, we loved it, it got old and died, no diseases we had never even heard of. It is so hard looking for the devil in the details on anything that relates to our dogs health now. You are right on there being no rights or wrongs just all of us trying to do what is best. Good luck to you and Ernie Penny

Penny Lytle Creek Calif

I didn't feel it was an attack at all, I fully understand people's concerns and I'd in no way push the DAP products as ideal for everyone. I just maybe should have made that clearer in my original posting. :-)

Sue Northants

Dear Everyone, I apologise wholeheartedly to what I now realise was an incredibly insensitive comment I made. I myself am a veterinary nurse but I honestly didn't realise that there was a possible link between flea treatments, vaccines and Canine Autoimmune Hemolytic Anemia (AIHA). I can therefore fully understand your concerns regarding chemicals/ingredients in veterinary products. If the forum is still interested I will get a confirmation about the exact ingredients in our DAP products and check thoroughly to see if any adverse effects have ever been reported. Sincere apologies again.

Naomi London

Hi Naomi, As mentioned in my previous posts I use the DAP products but I feel like I'm weighing one set of risks against another. More information to make choices with can never be a bad thing so I'd definitely be interested to know about the exact ingredients and if there have been any reported adverse reactions. Sue

Sue Northants UK

just come across this website while looking up aiha as my 9 yr old bearded collie has just relapsed to this condition which this time he is not responding to treatment and it doesent look to good at the moment.what i have read so far has alarmed me because i knew about the possible link with innoculations so he will not be having any more,but i did not know about the frontline issue and i bathed both of my dogs 2 weeks ago and then sprayed them with frontline as they were both scratching and i thought that they had picked up fleas although i saw no evidence of them,i am horrified that i may have triggered his aiha because of this!coincadence or what?,dean thomas.

dean andrew thomas taunton

Dean --- don't beat yourself up, it seems as if there is no actual answer as to why IMHA strikes. My now 8 year old Shih Tzu is suffering a terrible relapse since the 12th of November after being in a 5 year remission, and she has NEVER had vaccines, flea treatments or heartworm treatment. We will all probably never know why this horrible disease strikes, but you can't blame yourself, all you can do is do your best for your family and your cherished pet. Best wishes to you for a speedy recovery for your bearded collie. I feel as if this relapse with my Shih Tzu is thousands of times worse than the first time, and I just don't know what to do anymore to make her comfortable.

Lisa Florio Florida

thanks for that lisa,you can't help but do the what if thing though can you?,sox my beardie seems to be improving slightly since my vet started him on imuran last night,he has started eating again although he has vomited a couple of times aswell,his colour has improved so i am feeling a bit more positive now,i do hope your dog recovers again,best wishes to you,dean thomas.

dean andrew thomas taunton

Dean,, do not blame yourself. You couldn't have known the ingredients in Frontline. But for the future you would do yourself well never to use flea control treatments. They are laden with toxicity. Fibronil in frontline is a powerful insecticide. It gets into your pet's bloodstream although the makers of the product claim otherwise. There is insufficient clinical trial testing on this product. Best success for a speedy recovery for your beloved pet. Jan

jan philly

It is important to be careful about applying assumptions about products on the market for pets. Organophosphate insecticides that are available are generally considered not safe for use by people or animals. Safer alternatives are called insect growth regulators. There is a known and strong side effects of some of these products in particular "breeds" of dogs. All vets should know these breeds and offer access to genetic testing. That is specifically why some products like Frontline are still only available as prescription items. A mixed breed dog can have this genetic predisposition but not look like the original breed! In some areas of this county, ticks are so prevalent that they are literally crawling all over the inside and outside of the house and grounds. It's a tough choice whether to protect animals from devastating tick diseases or not. In some of these tick diseases, severe crippling anemia or thrombocytopenia can be just one of many symptoms. http://www.nrdc.org/health/effects/pets/execsum.asp "Flea control products now on the market include seven specific "organophosphate insecticides" (OPs). OPs work by blocking the breakdown of the body's messenger chemical, acetylcholine, thereby interfering with the transmission of nerve signals in the brains and nervous systems of insects, pets and humans alike. In the presence of OPs, acetylcholine builds up in the body. The resulting interference with nerve transmissions is of such a magnitude that it actually kills insects. In overdoses, OPs can also kill people and pets. But even with normal use of flea-control products containing OPs, pets and children may be in danger. The seven OPs are chlorpyrifos, dichlorvos, phosmet, naled, tetrachlorvinphos, diazinon and malathion. They are the active ingredients in dozens of pet products. A comprehensive list of products appears in Table 1. It includes major pet pesticide brands, such as Alco, Americare, Beaphar, Double Duty, Ford's, Freedom Five, Happy Jack, Hartz, Hopkins, Kill-Ko, Protection, Rabon, Riverdale, Sergeant, Unicorn, Vet-Kem, Victory and Zema. Safer Alternatives The continued exposure of children, pets and animal workers to OPs contained in pet products is all the more distressing because safer alternatives are readily available. Easy physical measures alone, like frequent washing and combing of the pet and vacuuming carpets and furniture, can bring mild flea infestations under control. Alternatives include insect growth regulators, or IGRs, which are not pesticides, but rather chemicals that arrest the growth and development of young fleas. These include methoprene, fenoxycarb and pyriproxyfen and the popular lufenuron (Program®). Alternatives also include newer pesticide products sprayed or spotted onto pets, such as fipronil (Frontline®) or imidacloprid (Advantage®). Particularly when used in combination with physical measures, the safety and effectiveness of these newer chemical products makes the continued use of pet products containing OPs -- and their attendant risks for humans and pets alike -- rash and unnecessary.

Patrice New York State

Patrice, it is very helpful that you perform extensive research for readers, but please be cautious of quoting parts of research data. Fibronil in frontine is a very toxic pesticide. Fibronil has only been on the market for ten years. Your information should not be presented as definitive. Fibronil is far from being proven 'safe'. Here is the MSDS for Bayer's Termidor, a termite control product that contains fipronil: http://fluoridealert.org/pesticides/msds/fipronil.termidor.residual.termiticide.au.pdf Here's an excerpt: Symptoms: Symptoms of overexposure include respiratory difficulty, decreased reflexes, lethargy, tremors, and in severe cases, convulsions. Repeated exposure at dose levels that are not acutely toxic may result in symptoms of toxicity. Medical attention: Fipronil is a reversible gamma-aminobutyric (GABA) receptor inhibitor. During intoxication it will induce neurological stimulation with possible convulsions. Treat symptoms. No specific antidote known. Phenobarbital, and to a lesser extent, benzodiazepines, have been shown experimentally to be effective in preventing convulsions induced by fipronil. Due to slow absorption of fipronil through the gut, symptoms of intoxication may be delayed several hours to one day. Absorption may be decreased by the use of gastric lavage, saline purgative and activated charcoal (possible entero-hepatic recirculation). Continue monitoring - due to the slow elimination of the compound. Here is a letter written by the NY State Dept. of Environmental Conservation in 2005 regarding fipronil: http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/insect-mite/fenitrothion-methylpara/fipronil/Fipronil_NYSreg_305.pdf Here is an excerpt: "The New York State Department of Health (DOH) stated that they previously evaluated the active ingredient fipronil in the pesticide products Frontline Spray Treatment, Frontline Top Spot for Cats and Frontline Top Spot for Dogs, and in a number of Combat and Maxforce bait station products. In the Frontline review, the DOH noted that fipronil caused a variety of effects, particularly neurotoxicity, in chronic animal studies at relatively low doses." I would not have been researching the toxic effects of fibronil if my pet had not almost died from exposure. We are all trying to assist one another from further devestating adverse reaction suffering. Jan

jan philly

I don't think I was encouraging anyone to use Frontline, only to *not* use OP's. Each person must make their own educated decision. Frontline is a prescription item, so their personal vet should be helping them make this decision. That is why it is prescription only. Overexposure is related to consumers thinking that a little more will kill fleas and ticks better. Neurotoxicity indicates that fipronil has crossed the blood brain barrier. This does occur in certain breeds, is well documented and easy to test with genetic screening. I don't take any of this lightly. I have a friend who is permanently and painfully disabled from underdiagnosed and undertreated Lyme disease. She lost her job because she could not work and lost her health insurance too. They treated her for a long time like it was all in her head. Both her dogs had to be treated for serious and advanced Lyme disease as well. There are often times when she is in too much pain to sit at her computer and write me an email. But she did remember to send me an email today wishing me a nice Thanksgiving. Patrice

Patrice New York State

This is what you quoted. You did not give the source but made it sound lie your personal recommendaation. 'Aternatives also include newer pesticide products sprayed or spotted onto pets, such as fipronil (Frontline®) or imidacloprid (Advantage®). Particularly when used in combination with physical measures, the safety and effectiveness of these newer chemical products makes the continued use of pet products containing OPs -- and their attendant risks for humans and pets alike -- rash and unnecessary' safety and effectiveness of these newer chemicals? sorry, Patrice, you are incorrect. Please do not provide readers with such a dangerous statement. It made it appear as if you were advocating Frontline's safety when clearly this product has been far from proven safe. Whether or not this item is rxed or over the counter, it is the consumer that must beware. The vets, in general do not recommend genetic testing nor do many seem to have performed their own research in areas related to flea and tick neurotoxic cause and effect products. In fact, many tote the products as 'safe.' The pharmauceutical companies are very powerful. They spent billions in marketing. The vets do a great deal of their continual business selling flea and tick and heatworm products along with encouraging vaccinations. Precisely why consumers must do their own research. These products are NOT regulated properly by the EPA. This precisely caused us to search for this site when our beloved pets became ghastly ill. Jan

jan philly

the first sentence should have read 'like your personal recommendation' typo.

jan philly

I have to agree with Jan, don't depend on your Vet to know the dangers of Flea & Heartworm & vaccines. I have never heard a vet I have gone to say anything close to a warning about these products. My dog TC had IMHA back in January and my vet never told me specifically what he had, and never said a word to me about the danger of flea, heartworm or vaccine's for a dog with his condition. We had him vaccinated and he gave him heartworm and he relasped. My vet is really liked by many pet owners in our community and he has a thriving practice, I asked and recieved many recommedations before I choose him. He is not malicious, just not knowledgeable about the dangers of flea, heartworm & vaccines to some pets.

Wendy Tampa

This thread was discussed between 05/11/2007 and 23/11/2007

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