Canine Autoimmune Hemolytic Anemia (AIHA & IMHA) - Dog Dylan unable to coordinate

Hi, A very nice helpful person referred me here today. My dog Dylan was diagnosed Saturday after first hesitating to eat Friday morning (alarm bells as she is normally voracious for her meal). She ate it delicately and later vomitted. In the evening I noticed dark pee and Saturday morning called the vet as soon as they opened and she was on hi dose of prednisone immediately. Her rbc's were 21 saturday and I know sank lower where she was really week for the last 2 days and certainly very close to not making it. She seems to be gaining strength slowly, first signs of this today, but she is having serious bouts of trouble coordinating her limbs. Not just weak and falling over or stumbling a little like Sunday. I first saw a bit of this coordination problem yesterday where she could not put her pads flat on the floor. She improved a bit after rest and I sort of assumed she was getting light headed as drinking is a very tiring task for a dog in her condition. Today she is stronger, was very attentive, ate well and drank regularly and then suddenly cannot coordinate herself to stand up. This seems to be an afternoon problem and she is better in the middle of the night and early morning. I hope she recovers from this again soon. When she tried to get up this afternoon at about 4 pm, she could not, yet an hour earlier she had her head up licking my bowl. She had a small bowel movement a the time, her first in 3 days, which is probably whay she was tring to get up. She is a rescue and when anxious or afraid bars her teeth and scares you away if she can, but through weakness was no longer showing this the last couple of days. Now with the anxiety of not being able to get up, she is showing her teeth and growling when I try to help her. This is a sign her energy is returning, she has always shown this behavior when afrraid of something physical. When I helped her yesterday to stay upright and get up, I did not see this aggression, as shewas too tired. I know I am on the rollercoaster with her weakness and anemia, which I have begun to understand and accept, but what about the lapses in coordination? Is it possibly due to the prednisone, as she is gaining strength , not weakening and getting better like her energy level. I know thee prednisone is working , as her blood red pee is a constant clear yellow. My other thought is maybe she got a bit dehydrated, but she would not take water when she was anxious. I am about to try again soon and try to feed her soon too. It really is the bouts of lost coordination I am interested in if anyone knows anything or has seen this before and knows anything about them. (I have some experience with auto immune diseases in people after fighting Crohn's disease in my wife for the last 22 years.) Thank-you for any help in advance! Richard Ford, Burnaby BC, Canada

Richard Burnaby

Hi again, It almost seems like it could be related to balance and her inner ear, but she also tends to push with her legs straight out and her head straight back, not really what you would expect for normal standing. Food fell on the floor a moment ago and you could see her interest, but as she tried to hold up her heaad she had serious problems with it and it wavered completely unsteady. I had her relax and put her head down. The timing is similar to yesterday, but the symptom is more severe. Thanks again, Richard

Richard Burnaby

Richard, I am so sorry Dylan was diagnosed with this awful disease. I am not too sure what to say about her coordination problem, I hope somebody with more knowledge will give you some better answer. When will you see the vet next time. It is certainly something I would want to have looked at, checked out soon. Of course it could be that she is just very weak or as you mentioned dehydrated. Is she on any other medication besides the prednisone. What dose is she on and how much does she weigh? The dose is usually 1 mg per pound. some vets prescribe even more than that. Please visit Joanne Dickson's Meisha's Hope website: http://www.cloudnet.com/~jdickson/index.html You can learn lots there and if you go to the success stories, they will give you lots of hope that Dylan can recover! Best wishes, Brigitte & the poodle boys on Vancouver Island

Brigitte BC Canada

Hi Richard, With AIHA there will clearly be weakness and perhaps some unsteadiness from the anemia. But what you are describing sounds a little bizarre. And I know you said when fearful, Dylan will show her teeth. My concern is she could also be in pain. Normally AIHA isnt painful but the fact that she is having these "coordination" issues too I would get her to the vet a.s.a.p. Parts of what you describe almost some like seizure activity. Has Dylan been formally diagnosed with AIHA? Teresa

Teresa va

Hi, I have 2 very real issues, the aggression is her fear response and although she has not bitten anyone in the past, she uses it to scare and it is dangerous if not under her normal control. If prenisone makes it worse, there may be nothing I can do, because right now she has far more strength for that than she has had for anything over the last 3 days. The more fear, the greater the response and not being able to get up and walk is so stressful on her, she is so afraid of what is happening. Although I know she is still very low on energy, she is not as low as before. She has gone for water, consumed a ton on her third attempt last night, could not get out for a pee and did where she was, which was okay as it was easy to clean. I got a bit of sleep and again, as has become usual, woke up to her trying to get up, this time outside for a poo. I let her out and of course, well, then I have to carry her back in, making sure she stays okay with it. At the momnent she won't let me clean her. She has improved slightly as far as coordination, since it happened yesterday afternnon. She could not get up at all, but this morning she is not much better than midnight. She is only on Prednisone so far (50mg/50 lb). She was so near death, but that is not as worrying anymore. Other than coordination (getting up, standing, walking), she is improving. I did get her pill into her last night, but had to resort to ice cream and her enthusiasm for eating (she was eating some food fed by hand twice a day), which had come back with the prednisone, also abated to some degree last night, but that seems mostly due to her anxiety over not even being able to hold her head up yesterday. That she can do this morning (4:30 AM here). Thanks again, Dylan and I both appreciate it. We are winning the odd battle, just not winning the war yet. Richard

Richard Burnaby

Hi Richard, When is Dylan scheduled to go back to the vet for a recheck?

Teresa va

Richard - I am really sorry to read about Dylan - how old is she and what breed(s)? My dog is a rescue & came with anxiety and fear aggression issues as a result of past abuse and neglect - I know it makes dealing with illness even more difficult. Has your vet been able to confirm the IMHA diagnosis and rule out other causes of the anemia? I'm asking b/c I wonder if the coordination issues you are seeing are perhaps related to an underlying cause. There are many people on the board who are very knowledgeable about this - you could search the archives for threads from Patrice about tick disease which may be one thing you want to rule out if your vet has not done so already. Also, has your vet run a full CBC and Chem Panel? If not, those may give you additional insight into what may be causing the coordination issue. If you post her weight and the meds/doses she is on, I am sure others will weigh in on whether they experienced anything similar. In my case, we did not see the higher doses of Pred exacerbate Murray's aggression issues (he was on high doses for 3 - 4 months). I hope you get some answers soon - please keep us posted on how she is doing - we'll be thinking of you. Best Regards, Bonnie

Bonnie Chicago

Hi, She is only on Prednisone, 50mg two times a day. She was 50 lbs. I am calling my vet today. IMHA has been confirmed by analysis of her blood. I am thinking that although she never lost conciousness, that this might be localized brain damage, like a stroke would cause (ischemia), where symtioms might not appear right away. I have been fighting an auto immune disease for 22 years, I can see how serious Dylan's condition is and the real factor now is, can I take care of her? If she can't walk, or attacks me, that will be a real problem since I don't have anyone else to help and I won't be able to get anyone if she is dangerous. I am not giving up, but I do need to find answers as soon as possible. Unfortunate as it may be, I may not be able to take care of her to the level she needs. Soon I have to be able to get back to work too. Thanks for helping, I love Dylan so much, but I don't want to see her suffer either and the problem with standing is very hard on her. We can suffer through a short bought of trouble, but if this is going to be a permanent problem, that is a whole new problem to deal with. Thanks, Richard

Richard Burnaby

Did they do a thorough ear examination? Gotta rule out inner ear problems like perhaps a deep infection??? A round of antibiotics might be a good choice also as an *in case of* precaution. Did they do additional tests....tick disease, chemistry panel, xrays/ultrasounds? The coordination issues would have me worried. It's possible it may be anemia related but I'm thinking there's something more here. You should really talk tothe vet about this. Rule out the simple things and if nothing is found ask if you can be referred to an internal specialist. Are there any veterinary schools nearby? Brigitte is in BC...perhaps she might know this. Maybe Patrice might have an idea on this. I'll keep Dylan in my thoughts and prayers. Johnny & Tessy

Johnny

Richard, I just had an other thought. Get your vet to check Dylan's thyroid. According to Dr. jean Dodds, some hypothyroid dogs respond with aggression. Many IMHA dogs are hypothyroid. make sure they do a full panel T3,free T3, T4, free T4 and TGAA. You can only get this done at hemopet (this is what we did) or some specialty labs. Even if this is not the cause of the aggression it would be important to do. I think you might want to go and see a specialist or at least have your vet consult with one. Dylan should be on a strong stomach protecting drug, better even two (sucralfate, ranitidin, sp?) and an other immune suppressant (azathioprene or cyclosporin) I know there is a great emergency clinic in Burnaby, I was tempted to travel there when my dog was sick. I decided to work with my local vet and have her consult with Dr. Dodds in California. Because I would have had to travel 5 hrs. one way, this option was a lot cheaper for us and I got the input of the best specialist! Good luck and best wishes, Brigitte

Brigitte BC Canada

Richard, this is the clinic I was thinking of: http://canadawestvets.com/ I don't know if this is an option if you don't have petinsurance.... Best wishes Brigitte

Brigitte BC Canada

I agree with Brigitte and have heard that an over or under active thyroid can be the cause of aggression in some dog. I agree that you should have that checked when she goes to the vet. Cheryl & Ginger

Cheryl & Ginger Pineville PA

Richard, I am sorry to read about Dylan. This sounds very frightening and I can imagine you are beside yourself with the urge to do something to make this better. How old is Dylan? Approximately? These symptoms seem very similar to something called syncope. This is essentially a period of low blood flow to the brain. This can be related to a number of conditions. Right now he is also anemic which provides even less O2 to the brain. A dog with syncope could actually look like they are having a seizure or a stroke. The key when this happens that makes it different is that they never lose consciousness and can recover fairly rapidly once this "attack" is over. I hope you will conference with your vet today. These symptoms are not that common with dogs that have AIHA or IMHA. Dogs will be aggressive when they are in pain, it is nature. The question is, is he in pain or just exhibiting his natural personality. And as Brigette noted, low thyroid will also increase aggressive behaviors. There can be a condition called euthyroid sick syndrome that could be in play here as well. my best patrice

Patrice NYS

Hi Richard, Glad to see everyone has jumped on board! Didn't I tell you these folks are amazing, and so helpful!! I think I did mention to you earlier that Mercedes was on thyroxine. The drugs really impacted her and she did have a "sick thyroid' when we checked that via Dr. Dodds. I know thyroid can and does affect the aggression level in some dogs, so it "may" factor into this. But given Dylans history who knows. Hopefully someone else on this board has had some similar "co-ordination" type complications and can contribute something useful. Hope Dylan is doing a little better this a.m. Stay in touch. I will continue to check FB for messages from you. Warm wishes Maureen and Mercedes

Maureen Southern Interior

So Dylan is a 10 year old rescue who has had to fight a few battles along the way. I spoke to my vet and I feel a bit better now. She thinks it is still due to very low rbc count and that the increase in energy and aggression is due to the prednisone. We have reduced her dose slightly, as she still needs it to be as high as she can tolerate. This contradiction in energy and oxygen supply is likely causing her problem. Her gums are still pale, although probably less so than Saturday and Sunday so she has not likely recovered enough to support movement. This news does make me feel better, as it says patience, ride the roller coaster! I can do that! The one things she has not done is lose consiousness, or even shown any real signs of confusion, but the standing problem may be the tip of that iceberg. I have been paying very close attention to all her physical and behavioral signs as her cognitive state is critical to assessing her anemic condition and how close to the edge she is. The stimulatory effect might be masking how low she is to some degree. I have watched her breathe for 4 days now amongst other things, making sure it is what I would expect and I can say that she has been as close to the bottom as she could be. She is a bit better again this morning, took some food, really loves the bloody beef heart, which is a good thing, and thank goodness for ice cream! It is still too early to start dealing with the other issues that surround prednisone, or IMHA as it is still just about pure survival, stopping the attack and getting more rbc's so she can fight harder. One thing I know really well is canine behaviour and Dylan has always shown aggression to fear. She learned early that this kept people and annimals away from her as she fended for herself from 4 months of age on. The reason she is stil here is I do know all to well what her fear is and how to handle it and how to reduce it. Any painful, or scary situation (a poo hanging on a hair for example) requires that I calm her first and then deal with her, sometimes it requires help, or a muzzle if the fear is too great (which I have handy). I hate using it and rarely do. In the beginning, she could not go near anyone, or any dog. Now she can do both, but in times of fear, her original response she learned when she was a very young pup (probably even before she was set free and likely the reason she was set free). People are the cause of her trouble, any trouble, which is not true, but how she sees the world thanks likely to early abuse. She has learned to come to me for help and always does. I just need to calm her and relax her first before I do anything, so that is what I did to get to carry her in here last night despite her initial attempt to scare me away. I don't scare easily since I know she does not really want to hurt me. Even her attempts to bite are always near misses, never aiming for full contact. My wife cannot do this and Dylan's behaviour does scare her at times and I certainly would not recommend to do what I do to your average dog owner. I have a strong background in physiology and a Master of Science in Psychology and I have studied human and canine behavior most of my life. I train dogs, because I love the relationship and their character. One of my dogs has performed Dog Agility as a representative for the Canadian Team at the World Championships. I am much more proud of Dylan's accomplishments, as she has had so much more to overcome in her life. She loves people now and has trouble only when in pain or afraid. That is a miracle! Despite her issues, I am rejuvinated again to fight another day. I could not have done this without Maureen's help - Thank-You again and again - and many other friends who are helping. Thank-you as well. These suggestions, questions, support are everything to me right now and I am sure I am going to continue to need help. I also hope one day I can return the favour! Thanks, Richard

Richard Burnaby

Yes I know of Canada West. They are definitely the best here and specialists, but they are also very expensive. We have been referred there before for a previous dog who was terminal. I am not able to go that route now and there is nothing more they can do at the moment likely anyways. My experience with the auto immune disease, Crohn's, in humans says that there are experts out there, but they are not generally found in your local hospital. There is a lot of good knowledge, but it is not mainstream and in Crohn's treatment we have always observed how much smarter people are outside of the Dictor's office. Patients and people who care, doctor's who care know more. What is in the book is usually only a limited offering of what can be done and is most often old news and outright wrong at times. In over 20 years of fighting Crohn's, many things we have learned and known have gone from being outright rejected by Doctors to current treatment. I cannot telly how much pain they put my wife through by not knowing and admitting the truth. Surgeons especially, but it is a long list. I am here for that reason. My vet cares about dogs and how they are treated. She does everything she can and ignores nothing. She respects my knoweldge , which is not common among Doctors and Vets. I know my friends and you care. Thank-you!

Richard Burnaby

Hi Richard, Did you talk to the vet on the phone or did you take Dylan in? No disrespect but I wouldnt want to take my dog to any vet that gives that possibility of what is going on with Dylan over the phone, especially just after being diagnosed with a life threatening disease. How often are they having you come in to have blood work done? I would recommdend you getting in to see an internal medicine specialist. Please keep us posted, Teresa

Teresa va

Because of my beliefs formed from years of dealing with auto immune diseases I have changed several things in how I raise my dogs starting with Dylan, but not in the beginning with her. Even though this is kind of a new topic for discussion, I will post it here, but if we want to get in a big discussion I will create a new topic for that. This thread is about Dylan. She is the last dog in my family to get a combo vaccine. I still vaccinate, but I am extremely careful in how I do so and Itake it very seriously as it will impact your dog for the rest of it's life. I wait until all of the mother's antibodies are 100% gone and this last time, I even "titred" (measure antibodies in the blood) prior to the first vaccine. Here in BC, distemper and parvo are most critical and I do those. If I need to go to the US, or Alberta and beyond, I will do Rabies, but not when doing anything else and they must be 100% healthy (Dylan was not). Kennel cough, lime disease are not worth vaccinating for. Anything that has a cure, or just does not work (kennel cough, too many varients), or is something natural for them to fight and easy for the most part to beat like kennel cough.. I also don't ever boost a vaccine without titre testing my dogs for the antibodies. If they have any at all, they can produce them. Even if the numbers are low, it generally means they have not been exposed to the antigen in a while. It is my opinion that although the body can make millions of different antibodies, naturally it only does so to one disease at a time. You might end up being sick with more than one thing, but your body still does things sequentially as that is how you are infected. To me this is critical. Combo vaccines are evil (as are some of the methods for making them, including the use of toxic substances). It is my belief that the initial confusion begins with them and that this can help create the initial environment that allows a trigger to occur. The immune system is confused when it begins to attack oneself. The other issue I have with them is how poorly they are tested. They are not tested on animals or people who have dieases or who are sick. I know, from experience (I was a scientist) what the drug companies will do to get their drugs through and the vaccines are a huge money business. In the case of vaccines, death and side effects are often explained away and discared for no real reason other than they don't support the safety of the vaccine. Oh "that patient died because of heart trouble, not because of the vaccine" - well maybe the vaccine contributed and amplified the problem and people with heart trouble should not take it. You will never hear that. You kow vaccines are pushed by dealers, as they ignore dose! Who would give a 5 pound dog the same does as a 200 pound dog? You know they are pushed if they ignore health and the natural state of the immune system. Why would they give a vaccine to newborn babies for hepatitis, when you can tell by testing the mother's blood and that is the only way they can get it? The newborn has only got the mothers antibodies when they do this. That is a recipe for confusion. We were pushed to vaccinate Dylan and yet we had no knowledge of her previous status. We don't go to that vet anymore and have not since his other recommendations were always bad news, easy fix. Sorry for the rant, but I feel very strongly on this and I am so mad at the moment once again as I feel let down by governments and doctors who are supposed to protect us. I know many of you may not agree and that is fine, but I will see down the road when my other dogs get older and I deal with all their troubles. Maybe I am wrong, but I am always doing my best as I suspect you all are too. Richard

Richard Burnaby

Richard, how great of you not to give up on Dylan's behavior! But then you are a fellow agility buff and we never give up, right? I think it is even more important now that you keep Dylan away from anything that frightens or agitates her. But my feeling tells me you already know that. Stress can be a trigger for IMHA and once a dog has it they should be as stress free as possible. Doing agility, I know you are very connected with your dog and know how to do that. You are right, there is a lot of knowledge on this list, but after all we can just tell you from our experiences what we would do. Of course there is the exception of Patrice, she has a lot of medical knowledge. I would still urge you to see a specialist for internal medicine. You are lucky to live in the lower mainland where you would have easy access. Don't wait on giving Dylan a stomach protectant, do it today! Not doing this could mean mayor complications. Dylan is on an extremely high dose of prednisone and I would suspect she would get ulcers fairly soon if you don't protect her. For me there are other red flags that tell me that your vet, as nice as she may be, has not a lot of experience with IMHA. Keep us posted. Best wishes, Brigitte & the poodle boys

Brigitte BC Canada

Well, I like my vet and the fact that she will consult with me on the phone and not force me to traumatize my dog unnecessarily. The trauma of going to the vet would be immense and I do mean extreme anxiety. This alone could kill her in her current state so I will stick with my vets advice, as I agree with it and made the decision myself. She trusts my ability to observe and know what is going on and we have great ability to communicate. She believes, and I do to, that this is still early and from how low Dylan is, that her strength is extremely low and that the prednisone is masking her low rbc level a bit which gives her artifical strength, allowing her aggression to show, and takes energy away from where it is needed. She does not have the energy to support this, however. This is why we are trying a small decrease in her dse. We don't want to stop the effect, we want to see if we can reduce the overstimulation being imposed on her by the prednisone. So the only thing to do is ride out the prednisone and from my detailed description of Dylan's current status and behavior, my vet is making an informed decision just as she would if I were there, without traumatizing Dylan and allowing 100% of her energy to go to fighting IMHA. On a good note, but as has been the case each day, Dylan has improved a bit for the morning, although not at her previous levels still. She made it out of the house to take a massive pee at the other end of the yard. She let me provide assistance to get back to her kennel, which was quite the adventure. I wish she would choose a closer spot to pee, but last night she could not do that at all. I am still concerned she will cycle into her bad state again, but she ate this morning and for that I am grateful. Her intestines are working, her pee and poo is good. She is alert and paying attention, even asking for attention. I wish this was a little more even ride, I don't think I like roller coasters any more ;-) Richard

Richard Burnaby

Thanks, I will get her stomach protected. This may still be difficult to do, as her apopatite has been irregular, last night ice cream was the only thing she would take. I will have to look back into the adcice I have been given for the best options. Unfortunately, I cannot really leave the house, but one of my friends can help. My brain is fried a the moment too. Richard

Richard Burnaby

Hi again Richard, I totally understand about the extreme stress a vet visit can cause on our beloved dogs. When my Jacob was first diagnosed we thought if the disease didnt kill him, the frequent trips to the vet certainly would. With that being said, I am very concerned about your vet's knowledge of AIHA. I am not sure what they meant about "this is still early". The "early" part of the disease is the MOST crucial. Frequent blood checks are a must. I strongly urge yo to seek out a specialist, even if it is through your vet and just a phone consult with a specialist. It is more than obvious just how much you love your Sweet Dylan. But I can assure you this disease is one that can be monitored at home. Some dogs, including mine, are really good at appearing "ok" even when they are in a major crisis. My boy's count was at an all time low of 9% and the specialist said he shouldnt even be walking. He was not only walking, he was jumping up on the specialist when she walked in the room. His outside appearance did not match the grave danger he was really in. Not only the disease itself, but the fact that Dylan is having a problem even getting up at times could suggest that her blood counts are dangerously low and it could at any moment put her in great distress. I am certainly not trying to add to your stress right now...I am just merely pointing out just how this disease can go from bad to grave in a matter of hours and Dylan's mobility issues could be a great sign of something really urgent going on. Teresa

Teresa va

Dosing prednisone and how hard it is on the stomach is not an IMHA thing. It is used a lot by normal vets and only when necessary by mine, and she does know it is hard on Dylan. We were not planning to wait long and I will stress this point. This does not make her a bad vet. Again, I may need to go to a specialist, but I personally believe we are still fighting one battle. Extremely low rbc count thanks to IMHA. My vet also knows she is not an expert, but she has seen this disease many times and treated it many times. Who's to say the expert I see is a good expert? How do I know? Well I know Dr. Jean Dodd is as everyone says how great and helpful she has been. We saw many experts for Crohn's and generally they were very limited in their ability as they only can think of what is dogma, but they were helpful and we did need them. Only when necessary and for specific cirumstances when they were required, however. Back to the point, Anyone know what is best at this stage for stomach protection? I don't want to interfere with the prednisone and I would think it was possible to do so. Her stool is soft, not runny (not orange anymore either) and she is not constipated. She is consuming a lot of water as would be expected and has 2 bowel movements since eating again. Also, Please if I ever sound kurt, or mean, it is not intended. I really appreciate anyone's help. I am tired and moody as a result. I am opinionated too, but I try to be nice, I want to be nice and I will apologize if I ever offend anyone. Richard

Richard Burnaby

Richard, I don't have too much to offer because I lost my girl a month into the fight but I wanted to add to be careful with the ice cream or any people type foods. Pancreatitis often rears its ugly head while dogs are fighting this disease. You are preaching to the choir regarding how we all feel about vaccinations etc. and the companies that make them. I think sometimes these special dogs are sent to us because it is known we will do the best we can for them. Dylan is one lucky little girl to have you there for her. Sending prayers and positive thoughts for you and yours. Penny

Penny Lytle Creek Calif

Richard, I think you are preaching to the choir right now as far as your emotions.:) I know for me personally I was so angry when my boy was first diagnosed. He has since passed. He was diagnosed in July 2002 and successfully fought the disease for over 6 yrs. I was so angry and moody. I think I was angry at the world, at myself, etc. My Jacob's specialist didnt tell me anything I wanted to hear. She was very straight forward with his prognosis, which was termed "grave". We were very fortunate to beat the odds and Jacob just got stronger day by day, but not without a fews steps forward and several steps back at times. As for Dr Jean Dodds, she has helped many many people but in our case had we of followed her suggested protocol we would have lost Jacob early on. She had suggested epogen as part of our protocol. Some people on here have to keep their dogs at the er vet for sometimes several days and that was never an option for us as Jacob, like your Dylan, would not have tolerated that at all. If we were going to lose him, then it was going to be in the comfort of his own home and not stressed to the max in a small kennel in a strange place. He did go to the vet frequently in the beginning for pcv checks and also to make sure he was on the right amt of prednisone and imuran. That mix worked well for him. He never was able to totally get off the pred and remained on a 5mg eod dose. Not sure what breed your girl is but my Jacob was a very strong, goofy Labby/Bully mix.He has been gone since 2008 and there isnt a day that goes by that I don't miss my heart dog. He took a huge piece of my heart with him.:( Teresa

Teresa va

Hi Teresa, We know this part is critical, but in the first few days there are not many choices on what can be done. When your dog's rbc count was so low, other than rest, what was the recommendation? Did you get other drugs, a transfusion? we have already decided against a transfusion. I cannot bear the thought of my dog dying in some room on a cold table with a bunch of strangers when the chance of success is limited at best. Also, despite the love for my dog, due to unfortunate cicumstances I am in a rebuiding phase from bankruptcy. I don't yet have a pile of cash to throw at it. I know her RBC cound is near death. All of her behavior says so, so if there are alternatives to prednisone, or additional things that can be done, let me know and I will seek that advice. For the moment, I Would just like to know what the experts did for you. I know for a fact, the outcome of running to my vet would have been similar to what it happened. For financial reasons, I need to make sure every cent I spend is going to be worth it. Spending money to help her, I am okay with that as long as it is leading to a better treatment. Spending another $500 to find out prednisone is the only thing to do right now would not be wise for any of us here. With my dog Jagger, after spending $3000 to find out, yes it was blood crushing her heart and that it was likley heart disease, or tumnour that had burst, causing blood in her pericardial cavity, suffocating her. They withdrew blood to find out it was blood, that made her better at the time and we hoped long term, but is was short term. By that night I could here the labour in her breating again. By morning she could hardly move and was sstruggling for air, suffocating. There were tests we could have done, ultrasound and we would have learned it was the tumour, or heart disease, but what was the cure, the treatment? Can you stop the bleeding? No! Okay, I don't need to know the cause if I cannot stop what is killing her. I feel this way again. I will spend what I can, but I need to make sure it is the right time and the right thing to do, I cannot use the shotgun approach. This is why I am here at this time. So again, I ask. What did they do when your dog was at the weakest point? What can I do that might help beyond prednisone at this point? Stomach protection, Okay! Liver pttection next. Milk Thistle and other substances that promote red blood cell growth, okay. These are all good, but they won't help much if the prednisone does not stop it before her rbc is too low. Is there something else you guys know that I am missing? Richard

Richard Burnaby

Hi Richard, If you have a little time please read my boy's success story. It might answer some of your questions: http://www.cloudnet.com/~jdickson/archives11.htm Jacob is the Oct. 2003 success story. I cannot tell you how much I agree and relate to some of your above statements. Honestly, if I knew then what I know now I would have done things totally different. In my opinion, the importance of frequent blood checks in the beginning is to make sure the pred dose is right and also to make sure no secondary infections due to the pred have reared their ugly head such as urinary tract infections. If the pred isnt doing its job there are other drugs that can be added. In our case, that drug was imuran. Others on here have had much success with cyclosporine but I have no experience with that one so cannot comment other than to say that is very costly. Imuran was fairly cheap, not as cheap as pred but a lot cheaper than the cyclo. I have to add we were not given an immediate aiha diagnosis. It was believed that Jacob pretty much had bone marrow failure. He did have a bone marrow biopsy and two blood transfusion. That is where I would have did things differently know. I did feel the bm biopsy was important. It showed that we did have a fighting chance when the original vet wanted just to send him home to die. As for the blood transfusions, I probably wouldnt have did them. That made his destruction worse and faster. But hey, I was trusting a vet. :( I begun researching the disease until it basically made me sick from lack of sleep, bad eating habits, and just a frantic overall desire to help my boy. Fortunately, I was put in contact with the specialist that was awesome and straight forward. She understood that I knew my boy better than anyone and she at that point gave most of her advice and "checkups" over the phone at N/C. She even called to check on him on her vacations. I wish every vet was that dedicated. She did have me go to my local vet to have frequent blood checks merely to check for the above mentioned reasons---that he was on a good med protocol and no infections present that would require an antibiotic. I have to run out now but I hope this helped you some. Hi paws and hugs to your sweet tough girl Dylan!

Teresa va

My girl is a pit bull mix. I understand about pancreatitis. I am not giving much. My dogs eat a raw diet and I tightly control how much fat they get, but I appreciate the word of caution. This was a last resort. She would not take anything last night and getting the pill in is the first priority. She is back eating for the moment. Not sure if she will later though. I am bracing for a rough night again. Another good point, that no matter what I do, it is always do your best. I know there is no answer to fix all and in once case what works may not work in another. I am just doing my best to make sure she has the best shot she can. If we shoose the wrong thing, or do the wrong thing, I won't punish anyone over it. I kow this and when I look for a Doctor or Vet; I want one that is humble, not arrogant, knows their limits. Knows when it is a guess, or not. God complexes are dangerous in these people and yet they are common. Specialists and surgeons are most notorious for this. There are good ones though, but I will alwasy remember that all I can expect and hope for is that people do their best. Mistakes are made, judgments err, this is the nature of life and also death in this case. The only thing easy about the disease is diagnosing it, from then on it is do the best you can and I am and regardless of the outcome, that alone witll be what saves my spirit later. I know, as I am okay with the choices I have made in this regard before. I need to be happy with these choices now too. As far as dosing prednisone, behavioral signs can be as good as blood levels in determining how much to give, especially now. RBC count and anemia are easy to see behaviorally. I don't need to go to get a blood test to know my girl is hitting rock bottom. I do need to know how to judgge her behavior and now we have decided to reduce her dose slightly. I have had lengthy conversations already with my vet and others about the process we need to follow and the signs we are looking for and please don't forget, my wife was on prednisone many times, pentasa, 6 mercapto purine, a few other toxic immuno suppressents, serious antibiotics, one of which she was allergic to and had a reaction to. I know about the toxic waste land that is autoimune treatment in people. Remicade, advertised like asprin on TV, my wife did that experimentally and the people who were doing the experiments never could tell the difference between her fistula discharging or not. It kills alpha cells and is extremely dangerous with harsh side effects, including death and tuburculosis and should not be advertised on TV. Is there a place for it? Yes, for seriously ill people, not those that see an add on TV. Pushers! worse thatn the kids in high school. So much more money involved. I have seen what this has done to research and left research because of it. The only guy out of 10 that stayed in our lab was caught cheating on his Masters Degree, but he put out the results the funders of the research, drug companies, wanted. The treatment that gets the most respect from me for fistulizing Crohn's is not at all supporterd by any doctors yet, but we have seen that before too. We know it works for many that have tried. And since there is no treatment for fistulizing Crohn's that works, why would you exclude soomething that might? Because it is not in the book yet and maybe in some cases, they cannot get paid for it. That is not in our best interest. That is where I am a I see every little minute behavioral change in averything my dogs do. I am a canine behavioral expert on my canine's at least and I know 1000's of dogs. I can tell you everything usual or unusual over the last 5 days. I know what every behavior means. I don't need a lab to tell me her rbc has gone below the 21 it was on Saturday. I have had my talks with Dylan when she gets hnear her low points and we understand todether that she will die peacefully here if that is what happens. This is all so helpful! Thanks :-) Richard

Richard burnaby

I am also certain the prednisone is working, although I can't say we have turned the corner, but from what I know this takes more time than I want it too and 6 - 8 days or more is expected. We are at day 5 and we have signs the prednisone is working. Her urine has gone from dark red to clear yellow. Her poo has gone from Orange to green. There is some signs the brown in her eyes is getting better and her gums are slowly returning to normal, although this is what makes it obvious she is not out of the woods yet, they are not pink yet. So would we necessarily add anything yet? Probably not given the current status. It is just very scary to me to see and when I hit rock bottom, I struggle. Thanks for helping me through it. My vet has helped me the most so far, every time I talk to her. Between your guys help and hers, I am sure we will know the right time to seek additional expertise. I still don't feel that the time is now. Richard

Richard Burnaby

Hi Richard, I am so sorry to hear about Dylan and her diagnosis. I certainly understand your struggles, but it sounds like you have your plan of dealing with this and it's great that you are comfortable with that. It's interesting that you mentioned Dylan's co-ordination issues she had early on. My IMHA dog Millie also had similar problems. She would stumble, lose her balance and fall, but then literally 10 seconds later, she would be quite OK. A stomach protectant such as carafate, along with Pepcid would be good to add to the medication regime which you mentioned above that you would like to do. Really positive signs you mention above with the urine colour returning to normal, and the gums starting to get some pink colour back. I am so relieved to hear that. It's up to you whether or not to add another immune suppressant. Azathioprine worked for my IMHA dog Millie, and it is a lot cheaper than cyclosporine which is a consideration when we spend so much money on fighting this disease. To me, it's a back up to assist the prednisone, and also when reducing the medication slowly once the rbc is stable. I think supplementing with Milk Thistle and Pet Tinic is a good idea right now - in my opinion, you have to assume the prednisone IS going to work and therefore you need to protect Dylan's liver and assist in the blood building. Take care, Sam & Millie.

Samantha Geelong Australia

Teresa, How quick did you notice symptoms in Jacob? Dylan was instant. From 7:00 am when she first put her nose up at food (alarm bells) and which she had no problem with the night before, to 7:00 pm when I noticed her pee was red. I would have noticed earlier maybe if it was red, but Dylan had vomitted in her kennel, so I was cleaning it when she pee'd. She was a little lethargic already and while speaking to my customer on the phone and trying to clean the kennel, I told him of my ominous feeling on this one. There was no question within 24 hours what she had. We did do blood tests to confirm as well. How soon did you get Jacob on prednisone? How soon did he have to go on Azathioprine (Imuran)? 6-mercaptopurine is the predecessor and I have experince with that. It is more toxic and my wife took it for a year or so amd it helped? She was put on prednisone when she was severly ill when first diagnosed 35 years ago. As far as I know it is not prescribed for emergencies, but maybe that has changed. I think she went on Azothioprine eventuually for a short while too, but it did nothing for her problem. I know cyclosporine, is a petty evil drug and offered to my wife more recently, but we already had experince with immuno suppressants(sp). Last resort kind of drug, really and may not be desirable either. I thought it was perscribed for long term control and maybe to help reduce or get off prednisone. Am I wrong, is this when it is perscribed, for emergencies? Is it perscribed if prednizone is having an effect? How quick is the effect when prescribed? So I beleive there is evidence the prednisone is working. I realize also and thank-you for reminding me too, there are many other things I need to look out for, but I always am. I will be in for another blood test soon too. I know what living with an immune compromised individual is like, 22 years. As far other things related, surgery in Crohn's is no longer recomended at all except in emergencies - dogma. Why? Patients with compromised immune systems and auto immune diseases do not heal well and complications are very likely. My wife had 5 and the last one she resisted for 15 years at least (she now has complications, the Doctor never ttold her about despite our drilling him repeatedly). Doctors never knew what they were doing, except the one who had quit and moved on, Dr. Pezim (Dr. Pessimistic as we called him then), who said surgeries are rarely succcesful and often frought with complications. Only if absolutely necessary. Well he was right and it is now procedure for Crohn's. It seems to take 20 years for things that weok to become accepted. Best treatment for Crohn's (except emergency), elemental diet "cleans" followed by populating the gut with good bacteria, follwed by introduction of healthy foods one at a time carefully (inluding raw milk, which is being shown to be extremely healthy, unlike what we get and which I have looked into aquiring for my dogs). This approach is also being taken in Autism, too. Anyone doing this in IMHA? Thanks, Richard

Richard Burnaby

Milk Thistle (know this one, Jagger was taking it to protect her liver, need a new supply) and Pet Tinic - recommended and working on that, although I have not ordered Pet Tinic yet (not available in Canada?) "Denamarin (milk thistle plus SAMe) helps to protect the liver" is this in any health store, or is it vet supplied? Pepsid has been recommended, working on that now. famotidine (Pepcid AC) @ 10mg twice daily (from the drug store) carafate, first I have heard of it, I will look into it. can it be given when they are critical? anything else?

Richard Burnaby

"These symptoms seem very similar to something called syncope. This is essentially a period of low blood flow to the brain. This can be related to a number of conditions. Right now he is also anemic which provides even less O2 to the brain. A dog with syncope could actually look like they are having a seizure or a stroke. The key when this happens that makes it different is that they never lose consciousness and can recover fairly rapidly once this "attack" is over" ****************** This is the main thing I have been watching for though as well. 24 X 7 for 5 days. I know what ischemia is. It happens when cells don't get enough oxygen and they die. Neruons are susceptible to this. It will look like a stroke too. Effects may not be noticed right away either unless you are watching all the signs for ANY change in behavior. I know there are drugs to treat this too. No one has mentioned these. If I am seeing these attacks, I suspect I should see other signs of losing consiousness and alertness and I have not. Her biggest problem when it occurs is the fear it provokes, but she is dealing with that better now too. This is not really what I am seeing all the time though. Today I saw groggy weakness, stumbling - anemia. I have not seen what I saw yesterday, where she was actually pushing with all her might and totally extended and afraid (anemia coupled with pred stimulation and fear?). The fear seems to be abating, which may help the other symptoms. I am keeping a close eye now as this is when it began yesterday. Today I made sure she had a pee before. So far, loss of balance is the only sign and it does come and go, not really like attacks, but maybe. Definitely due to rbc and anemia, no doubt. I do hope she is not getting worse, but the prednisone is clearing up signs, what more can I ask at this time? It is working. Is it fast enough? Seems to be some difference between individuals. Which is an area I am interested in as well. She has never lost consciousness, but her moments I now beleive are still due to incredibly low rbc and anemia. Why it is in the afternoon/evening is likely a cycle of some sort, hydration, food, pred dose, other? Richard

Richard Burnaby

Samantha, "She would stumble, lose her balance and fall, but then literally 10 seconds later, she would be quite OK" When did she go on azothprine? Was it to help a failing recovery on prednisone, or just to hit it as hard as possible? I understand the process of using it to reduce prednisone. Were her initial symptoms gradual, or quick? Dylan's symptoms are more severe, but still hoping it is mostly behind us and we are through the trough and now we are on our way up, so we can fall again later? Richard

Richard Burnaby

Richard, With Jacob it seemed he was fine one day and very ill the next. Looking back, the only bizarre sign was his reluctance to want to go outside. We chalked it up to the fact that is was 100 degrees outside and he much preferred the ac indoors. We didnt know how sick he was until we went up to bed one night. As I went into the bathroom to brush my teeth I heard a very loud sound. That sound was Jacob falling off the bed. It wasnt just a mis-step slip kind of thing. It was a "he was probably unconscious before hitting the ground" sound. He was out--tongue hanging out, eyes rolled in the back of his head. I believe that when he jumped on the bed he got light-headed and passed out and when he hit the ground so hard it literally knocked the wind out of him. When he came too, he pooped and peed. Honestly, up until that happened we thought he was gone. I stood over him in shock, still not comprehending what had taken place. We took him to the emergency vet. By the time we got him there, it was as if he was having no problem. PCV came back at 22%. They basically said he was slightly anemia but otherwise fine. Ugh, and that was the start of many vets, different diagnosis, etc. Jacob wasnt started on pred until I believe day 3. Imuran was added somewhere around the 2 month mark. That was added by the specialist for two reasons...First, Jacob's count wasnt really rising. It was stalled in the lower 20's forever it seemed. Although not normal, I certainly took that # over the all time low pcv of 9% in the beginning after the blood transfusions. And second, the pred started taking a real toll on Jacob's muscles and liver enzymes. So the imuran was added to help in getting his pcv up quicker allowing us to decrease the pred and its affects. It took almost 6 wks for the imuran to work on Jacob. Initally he was on 80mg pred daily and imuran was added at 50mg per day.Fortunately, Jacob tolerated the imuran very well. Moving forward years into the disease, Jacob was "maintained" on 5mg pred every other day and 50mg imuran every third day and he did very well for many years on this protocol.

Teresa va

Hi Teresa, Your case with Jacob is so different from Dylan's. Withn six hours of the first sign I knew there was a real problem and was already looking for signs of a serious problem. Ay change whatsoever from normal. Unfortunatley I missed the next opportunity. If I had seen her pee and it was at all red, I could have had her on prednisone in the next few hours. As it stood, it only tok 12 hours from the fist sign to a very grave sign, red pee, which caused my head to spin due to the striking incongruance with what is reality, pee is yellow! As it stands, she was on prednisone within 24 hours of the first sign. Although her rbc count is very low, Jacob was much better off. Dylan is in grave danger, as obviously her attack is severe. I could see missing a diagnosis with the symptoms you describe. The causes of anemia are many, but if this is common and easy to test in a blood sample, I think the vet truly was not a good vet. "Red Pee" is less likely to have non severe causes and a little more clear in what it muight be, but personally, I take no illness lightly. I watch intently the moment I get any behavioral sign. If I see more than one, I am obsessed! Even an irregular series of events, I have a very good memory and I do not forget unusual behavior. I check their pee and poo regularly, but not obsessively unless I am looking for something. In this case I was and "Red Pee" was it! Serious is how I felt immediately! The moment my clinic opened on saturday, I spoke to my vet through her assistant, as they were fully booked and I was going to insist to squeeze in. With the info I provided and 3 simple questions she asked and I answered, we knew it was likely IMHA and it was time to do what we have been doing. I went in, managed to get pee on the way there despite thinking I might lose her, we did blood and started prednisone on the spot. I think I have to wait for her to be stronger to throw another toxic substance at her. Anything could kill her when she is at the bottom. And I know we cannot do transfusions, that is a personal choice Dylan and I have made together. Since the signs of the disease are so obvious in Dylan, so are the signs of recovery. Clearing of the pee is great. Colour returning to the gums and the eyes turning all white again. These signs say prednisone is working. The agression and appatite are too, but not that they are turning the disease back. I am sure Jacob's symptoms and progression were equally scary. Even more so I think. I am not in the dark. I already know what an insidcious disease I am dealing with. I know he importance of red blood cells and what attacking them means. The second my vet said Autoimmune Hemolytic Anemia, I did not have to guess that this was probably going to an extremely difficult battle. No doubt at all. I think my logic does support my decisions, primarily because of such differences in our dogs cases and the knowledge I have accumulated over 22 years of dealing with a similar situation. I also have already spent that time looking for the right vet. I left the one you are talking about 10 years ago when he first screwed me up with her. She had to fight a few battles in the beginning thatnks to that vet. This is not my first dog and I have constantly been looking into how to do better for my dogs. Please be sure to know, I know you are always doing the best for Jacob (and any others you might have) too and I imageine working harder at it than ever like me, thanks to IMHA. I feed my dogs a diet I work hard to prepare myself, I excercise and train them, I love and play with them always, I try very hard never to take out my bad days on them. They even have a chiropractor, I have done water therapy for rehab and know how to rhehab my dogs and even more importantly, I know how to prevent injury, through conditioning, play and a carefully managed diet. My dog's weights are all precisely controlled to the pouund usually accurate to within .4 lbs. I work hard for my dogs, but harder now than ever before. 5 days - feels like 5 weeks and counting! Thanks Teresa, you are being so helpful. Thanks everyone else, I know I am a pain in the ass. Richard (and Dylan)

Richard Burnaby

Such a simple sign! Noise outside! Dylan, barks a few times, head up, ears up, looking for the source (not possible yesterday). Now there are people talking very near her, in my back yard. Now she is up on her front legs barking thinking about the intruder, ears up. No, it is her firends from next door, she is so excited, head up, a little wobbly, thinking for a couple of minutes about heading outside, but after trying to see if she would, so I could help her; I talk her into lying down instead and resting ( I will bring Issac in for her). Awsome!!!! That is not at all what I saw yesterday at this time. That is what I was hoping I might see today. She could not lift her head at all yesterday, although she did try. I had to calm her and ask her to stop trying and she did. Then I had Isaac, after explaining everything to him, move in quickly beside her and get down to the floor so she would not try to get up. She laid there while he petter her for a while. This time, Dylan is much more alert and has way more energy and although a little wobbly, way more stable. I asked Isaac if he goes inside to move up to her kennel and sit quickly, but not to surprise her. I don't whant her to get up too much and I don't want her surprised. I do want him to say helow and I do want Dylan to be happy. Isaac is her best friend. Isaac has come in ow and settled right in beside her. She looked up, followed him with her eyes and her head up, did not get up (what I wanted) and then immediately settled to let him rub her and pet her. I am in heavan :-) Hope I am not on the way down again soon either. Richard

Richard Burnaby

Lol! No, you are not being a pain in the ass. If that was the case, then we all are. :) Yes, the first fly by night er vet was a horrible vet. She made it out like anemia was just a simple disease, not a symptom. I have medical background so I knew better. Jacob's regular vet was compassionate but not up to par on autoimmune diseases and basically had the "take him home and love him while you can attitude". Jacob was clearly getting worse and worse so I make it into a 3rd vet and viola...she was great,well versed in this disease....Nope, but she cared and said "I know of a perfect internal med dr.that might be able to help." Dr. Cook was her name and I owe it to her and my research and love for my boy that he survived this disease. I spent many many nights lying beside Jacob on the floor when his count was dangerously low telling him it was ok to go if he wasnt up for the fight. Many mornings I woke up wondering, "is this it, did he go to the bridge during the night?" Jacob had tremendous inner strength and that was the only easy part of fighting this disease. If he wanted to continue, then I was ready to guide him along the way. My other dog Rocky that I lost in January 2010 ended up getting another horrific disease called Laryngeal Paralysis. UGH! That was horrible as well. To watch your dog suddenly out of the blue lose his breath and see his tongue go gray from lack of oxygen is just beyond scary. His condition was also part of a bigger neurological condition called poly neuropathy. We did get him the surgery to help him not go into respiratory arrest called a laryngeal tieback but ulimately 7 months later his body just failed him and his legs would no longer work and my boy was done, tired. We sent him to the Bridge just 1 week after his 14th birthday.

Teresa va

Another great moment, her stability has improved again. She had dinner out of her bowl (no food last night, but has eaten 3 times today, once by hand and 2 times in the bowl. She ate everything too (not done that in a while), then immediately got up for a long water drink and almost immediately turned and whent outside for a pee and then back to her kennel. That is her longest journey by far in the last 3 days. Her previous 2 days it was one thing at a time, a long wait after drinking to recover strength before going back to lie down. Never a drink and then straight out to pee without waiting. She has not done anything after drinking except wait to gain strength before moving on. She has to turn to leave the water bowl and that is especially hard. Last night she tried 3 times just to stand at the water bowl and collapsed before getting out for her pee. This is the first day that has gotten better all day long. Every day lately has ended with less energy, which peaked yesterday. She is not as fearful at this time either. More determined if anything. Hopefully this does have meaning, but I am still prepared for setbacks. Small steps in the right direction mean everything to us! :-) Richard and Dylan

Richard Burnaby

Richard, I am so happy you are able to celebrate the small positive steps in the right direction! Stay positive and relaxed, that will help Dylan to be relaxed and calm, which is important for her. Best wishes, Brigitte

Brigitte BC Canada

Hi Richard, Wow - very good signs for Dylan! That's amazing, and it definitely looks like a step in the right direction. It's so exciting when you see signs of the 'normal' behaviour! To answer your questions (and I speak only from experience, with no prior medical knowledge!) - yes, it does sound like Dylan is having more serious 'episodes' than Millie. My vet actually thought Millie had a "mini stroke" the first time it happened at the surgery, but who knows. As blod clots are a common cause of death in IMHA dogs, we put Millie on low dose asprin just in case. There is always the risk of "falling" later. I would say most likely due to reduction of the pred/cyclo/aza to fast. Millie has not had a relapse, and she was diagnosed over 2 years ago. She stays on a maintenance dose of Aza. The Azathioprine was started to hit the immune system hard as possible, which seems kind of strange when it can take a few weeks to fully take effect! Millie also recevied an injection of dexamethasone on diagnosis, and a blood transfusion along with the pred. I know these drugs are so very toxic, especially at these high doses, but I figured we had the best chance of survival if we took them. In hindsight, Millie's symptoms came on gradually, but then fast. She was vomiting bright orange bile for a week or two and had lost her appetite, and upon presentation at the vet, her initial PCV was 36. She stayed overnight, was "diagnosed" with a virus, put on antibiotics and sent home with us. That night we took her for a little walk, and she could go no more than 100 metres. The next day, PCV at the vet was 14 and she was diagnosed with IMHA. She dropped 22 points in 48 hours. We also experienced problems with ascites and stomach ulcers initially. Once I got her on carafate, she regained her appetite and the bloody faeces ceased. The carafate (sulcralfate) will coat the stomach, and I usually gave this to Millie 2 hours before meds twice daily, so it didn't interfere with the absorption. I think that Cyclosporine has less side effects, and works quicker than Azathioprine, which is why it is probably the drug of choice over Aza. Still not a nice one though, and I think quite a bit more expensive and more difficult to dose? It certainly sounds like your wife has had such a hard time with Crohns disease. I do have a colleague who also suffers from it, I am sorry to hear that your wife is dealing with it also. Please keep us posted on Dylan's progress. All the very best, Sam & Millie.

Samantha Geelong

Thanks for the info, knowing how the disease goes in others is important to me. It gives me the ammo I need to handle new situations I face. Dylan has continued to be good overnight, including a journey for a pee AND poo. It seems the little things are so huge at the moment. She is still too weak to get to the car, or go anywhere else, but no falling down, no aggression and more stamina, but still very tired after putting out effort. 24 hours in a row of improvement, huge for Dylan. To me this is a huge step, but I know it has not gone anywhere and progress will be slow and that there will be setbacks. I just would prefer to have setbacks out of the way until she is stronger. And yes, I have to value the good things so I can work through the bad. Since I lost my first dog Jagger, I have had to remember to make sure to enjoy every moment with Dylan and my other dogs. On that note, here is a little video of Dylan having fun a month before the day! http://www.youtube.com/gnrdogs Thanks again, Richard

Richard Burnaby

Hi, carafate - is it better than pepcid and does anyone know if it is over the counter in Canada? Samantha, that is what I knew about Azo, Cycllo and their predecessor, 6-maercaptopurine. That is why they are generally not prescribed in emergencies. If there is reason to believe otherwise, like you have needed the help of an immunosupressent in the past, okay. I stll have to keep a close eye on Dylan and consider these drugs every day. Sorry to hear about Millies trauma, but very happy to hear she is doing okay. I can see there are no good ways to get this disease. My feeling about trauma is that you also have to minimize it at all cost. Toxicity causes internal physiological trauma and stress and anxiety from fear are equally important. In my opinion, both of these must be kept at an absolute minimum, especially when they are at their weakest, like Dylan. Her symptoms were fast and hard and she was going to die soon, there is no doubt. I did animal research for several years, unfortunately, and we always saw the results of stress in our results. Generally it was ignored, as has been the case in a lot of animal research, like most cholesterol research. We were developing drugs for the drug companies on the University payroll (1988 -1994 for me). I realized everything I was working on had serious flaws, that were intentionally ignored even on thesis defences and in publications and research grants. I also learned that the honest people I respected most could no longer get grants or publish papers. The reason for this was that they had told what they thought was the truth to too many people and those people would accept nothing from them anymore as they were now on the granting and publication review committees. Out of handful of people I worked with in the lab, the one person that did not quit shortly after was a person whose results were not true when I performed the experiments and had who taken work from others against his permission to finish his Masters thesis. On the other hand, there are still great scientists out there that just cannot be ignored, so I am not all negative, but always prepared to research every side of what I read. I will be looking into a cleansing elemental diet for Dylan and use the approach that has been working in Crohn's (all cases are unique and nothing works for everyone) if I can (she may be too old, too frail...). I will be looking into how I can combine this with weaning her down and off prednisone (miracle, right!). I know this is all wishful thinking at the moment, but just trying to be prepared should she get there. Richard

Richard Burnaby

Hi, just thought I would thank everyone one more time, before moving on to new threads. Dylan is no longer in critical condition and now in serious, but stable conditon. She has steadily gained strength for 48 hours now. Other than the fact that I don't feel l can leave her at all yet, my biggest problem is she is now thinking about doing things and trying to do things that are maybe just a bit too much for her. She has been on a chair once, but I have now made that too difficult for her, as getting out is harder and I still cannot just ask her to do things, so getting her out of the chair is not a simple task. Just having a friend over though is enough to excite her and get her to go to the door, or outside maybe (and off the chair), but might be bit inconvenient to use all the time. Thank-you, Thank-you, Thank-you!!! Richard AND Dylan :-)

Richard Burnaby

Richard, if i were you i would slow down and take 3 deep breaths, and look at the situation, i have not been on the forum for quite some time, but when i was, we had a cockerspanial, she suffered with aiha and imt, for 10 of her 12 yrs. she almost died when she was first diagnosed, but thank goodness for Joanne, and the rest of this forum, this disease is a long and tedious process, and you have to have patience and confidence in your vet. pred does sometimes make them more aggressive in their behavior, but this too shall pass, just don't let the past training slide, she will come around once things inside her body start to settle down, takes time at least she fighting, as opposed to just laying down. take care bev

Bev Mb. Canada

Hi, It seems I did take your advice Bev. I did not even read anything for the last couple of days and we just tried to get our life back into some sort of routine. This was after the emergency was over, as I was not willing to rest until she started to recover. Dylan's strength has continued to climb. She does have one deficit from the anemia (or maybe seizure/stroke) when she was at her lowest Tuesday night/Wednesday morning. She has more muscle tone on her right side than her left and although she can turn left and do things to the left, it is much harder. Her head lists to the right, but as she gains strength, this difference between the right and left may abate somewhat. I don't think it is spinal (pinched nerve/disk), but it is still possible to some degree, I suppose. I have started her rehab program and I am working on her using and strengthening her left side. She still is weak from anemia, but is stronger every day and is getting a little excercise (not much) on a regular basis, compared to just a day or two ago. She is still quite flexible and can bend all the way to the left and step to the left, but it is not preferred and she never does it on her own. It does not appear to be visual, that is due to blindness on one side either. Eating and drinkingto the left, walking, sitting and turning for food to the left, head turns, body turns walking on uneven ground, all kinds of things we can do to help her recover her left turn and straighten her spine (balance muslcle tone) a bit so she does not hurt herself. Coordination and strength are returiong slowly. All of Dylan's current problems, I can deal with and am happy to do so. I do know prednisone can increase aggression (in Dylan's case for food as a treat too), but we backed off the pred dose slightly and it helped. A lot of her aggression was also because she was so afraid of not being able to stand, or hold her head up even and had no energy. She is not afraid anymore, but as has always been he case in Dylan's life, I have to be sensitive to her fears. She is a rescue who was abused and then set free for several months at just a few months of age. I have had to deal with this since we adopted her. At her worst, I just had to remember she was dazed and very confused, patience and reassurance and she allowed me to pick her up. This is no longer necessary, but I do keep a muzzle near by in case she is in pain and I cannot help her without it. Thanks everyone! Richard

Richard Burnaby

This thread was discussed between 23/03/2011 and 29/03/2011

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