Canine Autoimmune Hemolytic Anemia (AIHA & IMHA) - Breeding an AIHA recovered dog

I have a question. My GSD puppy bitch was diagnosed on December 24,2007. We fought a long battle and today she is happy, healthy and med free. Now my question, her Co owner/breeder wants me to breed Sofie when she is older and I just want an opinion on it. She just came out of heat and to be honest, she has been a bit tired acting, although her counts are fine. But the usual 3 weeks in heat every 6 months might be draining on her. I am going to discuss this with my vet and also send an email to Dr Dodds, but wonder if anyone has bred a bitch that had AIHA. I would prefer to spay her myself and not put her through the stress, even if it won't be for another year, but not sure what to tell the breeder.

Joanne Wyoming

Joanne, Because there seems to be a genetic marker for this disease I think I could not take the chance of breeding and possibly bringing so much heartbreak to the potential owners of the resulting litter as well as the chance of a relapse with Sofie. There is so much we have to learn about AIHA and I would be interested in what Dr. Dodds and your Vet have to say. Penny

Penny Lytle Creek Calif

Dr. Dodds wrote this morning and said that under no circumstances should Sofie be bred, or any dog that has had AIAH or other autoimmune diseases. She said the added stress of being in heat is hard enough on them and could cause another outbreak of AIHA, but that she had cases come to mind of bitches dying with puppies inside of them. I do not want to breed her and hope the breeder will agree. I want to spay her as soon as possible and make it less likely for her to have a relapse. Keep your fingers crossed for me to be able to go ahead and spay her.

Joanne Wyoming

The breeders demands that Sofie be kept intact and bred. Not sure what to do, but don't know if I can sit back and watch to see if she had another episode during all this future.

Joanne Wyoming

Joanne, I don't know what your agreement with the breeder is but I would recommend you seek legal council and it probably wouldn't hurt to get some animal groups involved you might contact Best Friends in Utah as they are big time into animal rights and abuse and in this case I would say this would be big time abuse to force her to be bred against all medical recommendations as well as your own emotional involvement. You are Sofie's voice don't let her down. Penny

Penny Lytle Creek Calif

Perhaps you should give the breeder the web address of this forum and let her read a few of the threads regarding this disease. I think and can only hope the reason why she still wants the dog to be bred is because she has no idea of its devastation.

Cheryl & Ginger Pineville PA

Joanne, PLEASE DO NOT LET ANYONE BREED SOPHIE!! I can't believe anyone would want to put Sophie at such an incredible risk, and even have a remote chance of perpetuating this HORRIBLE disease. Please call for help, TV, RADIO, Humane Society, and others mentioned already. I think we would all like to come to your doorstep and help you protect Sophie. This is absolutely not acceptible. The thought of another poor baby even randomly having AIHA is so painful to me, I cringe. That breeder/owner should be investigated for animal abuse, no question about it. Please let us know if there is any way we can help.. sign letters, anything. sharon and angel Brandy coach@epix.net

SHARON pa

Joanne, I have been thinking about this all day (you would think I had a personal involvement in it) I would get Sofie fixed and if the partner breeder wants to pursue it let them. Be sure and ask for a jury trial so you can provide information on all you have learned about this awful disease and I can't think of anyone who would not be moved by the fight we have all fought and the fact that Sofie has come back so strong. And it would end the threat of her ever being bred. Hugs to you both Penny

Penny Lytle Creek Calif

While hypothyroidism does not seem directly related to AIHA, in Dr. Dodds research she has identified particular problems with some purebred dog lines. Dr. Dodds' paper addresses how to evaluate purebred dogs for possible genetic disposition to thyroiditis. Whether someone would or should be deterred from breeding dogs like this is not clear. Dr. Dodds' paper: CANINE AUTOIMMUNE THYROID DISEASE: COMMON PROBLEM OF PUREBRED DOGS See this particular copy at: http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/ThyroidDisease.htm Selected clips: "The information provided here outlines an approach that has been used successfully by the author to reduce the prevalence of clinically expressed canine thyroid disease within susceptible families or breeds." "The most common cause of canine thyroid disease is autoimmune thyroiditis (estimated 90% of cases). Thyroiditis is an immune-mediated process that develops in genetically susceptible individuals and is characterized by the presence of antithyroid antibodies in the blood or tissues. Thyroiditis is believed to start in most cases around puberty, and gradually progress through mid-life and old age to become clinically expressed hypothyroidism once thyroid glandular reserve has been depleted. During this process, the animal or person becomes more susceptible to immune-mediated or other diseases affecting various target tissues and organs. *The prerequisite genetic basis for susceptibility to this disorder has been in established in humans, dogs and several other species.*" "The above explanation helps us to appreciate existing confusion and controversy within the veterinary profession regarding whether or not testing or treatment is indicated for dogs that fail to show typical signs of hypothyroidism. In fact, we have only recently begun to recognize the subtle signs of early thyroid dysfunction in dogs as prevalence of the autoimmune form of the condition has increased within and among dog breeds. Today, some 50 breeds are genetically predisposed to develop thyroid disease." "These thyroid panels and antibody tests can also be used for genetic screening of apparently healthy animals to evaluate their fitness for breeding. A bitch with antithyroid antibodies in her blood may pass these along to her puppies in her colostral milk. Also, any dog having circulating antithyroid antibodies can eventually develop clinical symptoms of thyroid or other autoimmune diseases. Therefore, thyroid screening can be very important for potential breeding stock."

Patrice NYS

Sofie is back with her breeder as of tonight, heartbreaking for me........ but since we co owned her, I had no legal right to spay her without co owners permission. Guess that is what happens when you get involved with some breeders

Joanne Wyoming

Joanne, I am so sorry. There must be something you can do as co-owner. I don't know what kind of agreement you have but it sounds terrible. Having always owned pound puppies I have no idea if there is some governing body that regulates breeders? Can you file a complaint? If you are a co-owner it seems you would have as much right to decide what goes on with Sofie as the breeder. The breeder sounds like she is running with a puppymill operation mentality. I am sorry if I sound way to out there but I would sell my soul to have my Salome back so I can't even begin to understand beating this disease and then losing your dog anyway. Penny

Penny Lytle Creek Cal

Joanne -- I just read this thread and I am just shocked and saddened that your co-owner would want to breed Sofie given the potential health implications for Sofie and her litter. If a person really loves a breed and wants to perpetuate that breed, they want to breed for healthy dogs, not breed with a strong chance of negative outcome.

Brenda VA

I am so sorry to read about this turn of events. How heartbreaking for you, who loves Sophie. Clearly the breeder does not make her dogs' health status a primary consideration when making breeding decisions. What a shame. In many cases, there may be a familial or genetic susceptibility. It is somewhat known in cockers & beardies. My own experience with my malamute is that I know of 3 other related malamutes to have died before age 4 of AIHA, so I don't question the possibility of a genetic link in my dog's case. I believe there is one (especially since the breeder of her line espouses tight linebreeding). btw, Penny, there is no regulated body for breeders, except perhaps the USDA, which regulates large commercial operations and that, in itself, would be a joke if it wasn't so heartwrenching. The requirements are minimal at best.

Ronda So Cal

This is heartbreaking and completely shocking to me. I guess I do not understand how this breeding arrangement works, however, would it have been at all possible for you to NOT turn Sophie over to them? Perhaps some sort of court injunction could be imposed until this is sorted out by some veterinary experts? Is your 'co owner/breeder' sharing her/your veterinary expenses due to IMHA??? Or the hearbreak of watching her during an IMHA crisis??? Joanne, I'm sure this is gut wrenching for you, but surely there is something more that you can do to help Sophie? I agree that Best Friends, PETA, lawyers, and your local humane society ought be involved ASAP.

sarah houston

Joanne: I have been thinking about your post since yesterday. I am absolutely appalled (to put it nicely) that your co-owner/breeder would consider breeding this dog knowing she has this disease. It is, IMO, irresponsible, indefensible and unethical. You did not mention whether or not this dog is registered with the AKC and whether or not the co-owner/breeder is an AKC member/registered breeder. While I know that the AKC has no legal authority, it certainly would have a vested interest in something like this as one of their goals is to promote responsible breeding practices to ensure happy, healthy dogs. Also, as stated in their bylaws (Article III) - one of their objectives is to regulate the conduct of persons interested in breeding, registering, selling... purebreed dogs. I doubt they would be happy to learn about this particular breeder's unethical behavior. If your co-owner/breeder is affiliated with the AKC I would contact them and ask it anything can be done. Finally, you might mention to your ethically challenged, apparently greedy co-owner that they might want to consider future legal/monetary ramifications of breeding this dog. If I were to purchase some future offspring, only to have it develop IMHA and then discover this breeder KNEW it's mother suffered from the disease, you can be sure I would sue for damages just to prove a point. I might not win but I would make this breeder's life hell and hopefully put them out of business in the process. Good luck with trying to convince this person to do the right thing - I'll be praying they come to their senses soon.

Rita IA

AMEN to Rita's comments and I too pray something is done before it's too late for all concerned. Please let us know if there is anything we can do to help. Praying for you, your family, Sophie and this horrible situation. I hope God in HIS mercy and goodness will help everyone see a better way. sharon

sharon pa

Hi Joanne, I'm so sorry to hear about the situation you are in with Sofie. As a dog lover who lost a wonderful Catahoula mix in June to this disease I'm sickened to hear about this breeder. It doesn't seem like they have a clue about this disease or the heart ache the owners go through. There has to be someone who can help you. It seems unethical to breed your dog & no responsible breeder would. I hope you get Sofie back soon she is much better off in your hands. If she has a relapse are they prepared to care for her? Good Luck, Dee

Dee WI

i can not believe that breeder. Apparently she knows nothing at all about this most horrible disease. If he/she does and still wants to breed Sofie. then he/she is heartless, selfish, uncaring. No person, and I repeat, NO PERSON knowing anything about this disease would breed a female dog that has ever been diagnosed with it and put her life in such jeopardy, or breed a male and chance puppies suseptible to it. My hunter had just turned 4 when i lost him to this disease 5 years ago last month. he had never been sick a day n his life til he came down with this following hi proheart6 injection. ha he lived and regaied heath i would have done nothing that I thought could remotely cause a relapse. i hope and pray you find a way to get that precious girl spayed and out of harms way as much as possible.

Sandra Texas

This thread was discussed between 24/10/2008 and 10/11/2008

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