Canine Autoimmune Hemolytic Anemia (AIHA & IMHA) - Anabolic steroids

Hello all! Anabolic steroids now being considered for Barkley...just wanted to hear experiences, information from others that may have gone this route. Thanks, Barkley and Cheryl

Cheryl Medford

Forgot to ask if anyone has had experience of increased aggression in dogs on anabolic steroids? Barkley and Cheryl

Cheryl Medford

Josh has used this with Sway. And very successfully. It is a common treatment for women with anemia. Or was.. Because of the hullabaloo in this country about illegal steroids, they are now illegal. The problem is that these formulations are *therapeutic* and not for body building! Talk about going overboard. Hopefully Josh will pop on the list and tell you more about how he used them for Sway and how "he got them." From what I have read there is a shortage because of the great need in Iraq. Sad. patrice

Patrice NYS

I should have said anabolic steroids are now a controlled substance and having them (or selling them) without a prescription is illegal. Obtaining them for veterinary use is difficult because of a great need in Iraq right now, thus the need to obtain them "illegally" for that use. It's still problematic that they have to be considered a controlled substance because they are used for so many therapeutic treatments. patrice

Patrice NYS

i think i am the only person on this whole board that has used them. i would recommend them considering i feel they have been the anchor that has saved my dogs life thus far. they are taken at a very low dose and 1 vial has lasted me over an entire calendar year... i sent you an email today cheryl, in response to what u sent me... i think you should atleast consider them for barkley, might wanna email dr. dodds just to get her opinion on your specific case... hey patrice! hope chance is well.

josh california

Hi Cheryl How is Barkley doing? We are keeping him in our thoughts and prayers. Cheryl & Ginger

Cheryl & Ginger Pineville PA

Update on Barkley: After Barkley's 6th blood transfusion on 8/11 his PCV was at 17...not wonderful but better than the 9 he was at prior to the transfusion. Again he seemed less energetic than with his first few transfusions but we went home and his eating picked up and he was rolling in the grass again. In the meantime the consensus had been that he might have to follow Sway's path and begin anabolic steroids if he continued to be unable to maintain an adequate PCV. I began the hunt for the steroids and, leaving out a few interesting details re: anabolic steroids, compounding pharmacies and the FDA,I received his Rx from Franck's Compounding Pharmacy/Lab in Florida on 8/13. Before starting him on his new Rx I consulted again with his primary vet and we decided to give him a few more days to continue on the increased Prednisone and thyroid med, etc. before actually beginning the steroid. I arrived home after work on 8/13 to find him with obvious evidence of blood on his front legs and paws and a significant size blood clot extending from his left nostril. Barkley had had a nose bleed early in his treatment which had caused me to go into a profound panic but I had learned from that episode to evaluate the situation first and then respond. Finding that there were not large amounts of blood anywhere I called my wonderful vet at 11:00 PM at home (per his previous permission) just to verify that this might not require an immediate race to the hospital, with which he concurred. I very gently removed the clot, found that he did not begin bleeding again (learned from the first episode), cleaned him up ...and spent a long sleepless night awakening every time a heard a noise from him or about every 10 - 20 minutes just making surg he was still OK. (He had eaten fine after I cleaned him up...I feed him multiple times a day to keep up his weight and to coordinate with his medication times...which also made me think that he was going to be able to see the vet in the morning...that along with his wagging tail when he saw me!) He did seem pretty restless for a while and seemed to be struggling some to push up or down perhaps so more stuff in his nose or throat ...but he really did seem as OK as he can right now. We made it through the night, he ultimately probably slept more and better than I did...and he went to the vet this morning...PCV 13. I talked with his vet and, since he had only been on his most recent Prednisone dose since 8/11 (it was now 8/14), we agreed to keep up this dose and wait until the beginning of next week to see how things go. If things have declined then we will start the steroids at that point. Until then he is still rolling in the grass, ate some liver treats for the first time in weeks last night and remains my precious velcro boy, never wanting to leave my side. I just adore my little guy and was touched to receive an email from Kelly at Franck's saying that she had told everyone there about Barkley's story and they are all wanting to have updates and they are rooting for him. My vet's young daughter again told us how she keeps sending fairies to watch over Barkley and that was why his bleeding stopped without getting worse. It terrifies me to think that he would be alone while I'm at work, trying to earn the money to pay for his care, and that something like this or worse would happen. But so far we're still keeping on keeping on and I held his little hairy body in my lap and told him just how much I love him...before I had to go to work again this evening. This is REALLY hard. None of you can imagine how much your support means to me...to us...or I guess maybe you can... With tender gratitude, Barkley and Cheryl

Cheryl Medford

Cheryl, It sounds like you guys have had some really scary episodes. We are rooting for you and sending postive thoughts your way. You both have shown strength and courage and Barkley keeps giving you signs that he is still in the fight. It sounds like it is promising that things could be moving in the right direction, and at least you know where to get the medication you need should you need to go down that path. I wish that you were able to keep Barkley with you during the day. That is the one thing that has helped us so much; Tiggs comes to work with me every day. I think I probably drive him crazy just staring at him, hugging him, poking and prodding him, but I am very lucky to be able to have him at my job. I hope that you can find one more fairy that might be able to watch over him while you go to work. Keep us all posted, and give Barkely one extra hug tonight from some of his cyber buddies. Melissa and Tiggs

melissa slc

Cheryl, I just wanted you to know that I am keeping you and your dear Barkley in my thoughts and prayers. Big HUGS to you both.

Joanne MN

wishing barkley well...

josh california

Thank you to all of you and deepest empathy to any and all of you canines and the people you own who are struggling through this together. Barkley had his 6th transfusion of packed red cells from Dr. Dodds/Hemopet Blood Bank on 8/11 and his PCV went up to 17 but by 8/14 had dropped to 13. We stuck it out through the weekend but I knew he had dropped significantly and today, 8/18, we were at the vet in the AM (he has a sort of open/standing appt anytime he needs it at this point. Sure enough, his PCV was again down to 9 and so transfusion #7 took place. He came home late in the afternoon with a PCV of 16 and will go back again on 8/21 for complete blood work to be forwarded to Dr. Dodds for her review and probably another transfusion before our vet goes away for a week (but his staff can do a transfusion while he is gone, if necessary, since they ordered 3 more units today). Barkley has not yet begun the anabolic steroids because we wanted the added thyroid meds and increased Prednisone to have a chance to work...and now I think we are going to wait until we receive feedback from Dr. Dodds before we begin them. Any one have any feedback about Dexamethasone vs. Pred? And how about splenectomy? One of the emergency vets on Barkley's treatment team seems to be leaning in that direction but I have heard really mixed reviews on that and would really see it as a last desparate attempt...and hope we don't have to go there. Anyone know about the research being done at one of the universities in Colorado with a medications that starts with the letter "L"? I was told Barkley couldn't qualify for the trial because he had already been started on the other meds. The time and money and stress and emotional load are incredible...but that little furry face and those animated eyes hiding under all that Tibetan Terrier just won't let me do anything but keep on trying. Sleep has become a foreign commodity since I often sleep with one eye open just to make sure that he is still breathing ...and then he gets another transfusion and runs to the door barkleying or chases the cat or kisses my face...who could quit? Any and all suggestions, information, inspiration, messages of hope or affection sent for my little guy will be gratefully accepted. He's the best...and so are all of you for caring! As always, Barkley and Cheryl

Cheryl Medford

Cheryl, I am sorry that Barkley is having such a tough time of it right now. It sounds like he is in good hands as far as treatment goes. We all know how exhausting this road can be. I am keeping you both in my thoughts and prayers. Penny

Penny Lytle Creek Calif

Cheryl I am sorry to hear about Barkley and want to give encouragement. I have no advice except to say Wylie had a splenectomy in May as she had growths on her spleen that were benign but could have been bledding out as the cause. She was pretty healthy though with her PCV at 41 when she had it and my vet wanted her of prednizone so we did a fast wean. SO thats one thing I would really ask about since she is on many drugs the impact of her health and doing a splenectomy. My prayers for Barkley to get better Laurie

Laurielee CA

cheryl- i am really sorry barkley is having such a tough time... i would give more advice but our situation is so backwards compared to most of the other dogs that have been thru this. i really think you should consider starting the durabolin injection as quickly as possible. there is nothing to lose and it has far less side effects than the meds he is already on. all up to you of course, wishing you guys the best, josh/sway

josh california

Thanks,Josh. I wondered if the question ever came up with Sway and Dr. Dodds that the anabolic steroids, since they stimulate red cell production, might cause the immune system to become even more destructive to attack them, resulting in the risk that things would get worse rather than better. I know that has been one of the questions with when to transfuse. Also, did you ever try Dexamethasone rather than Prednisone and did it have any different outcome? Another question I've been wanting to ask you - How long has Sway had to remain on the anabolic steroid...and how often? Sorry if you had this info in your website but I have just been trying to keep afloat and haven't yet been able to go through it to gain the benefit of your experience and resultant wisdom. Please know that you and Sway are a big part of what is keeping us going right now. I think that Sway's middle name must be "Hope". Thanks for being so giving. Barkley and Cheryl

Cheryl Medford

dr. dodds never mentioned the possiblity that they could make the system 'more destructive'... atleast not that i can remember... im sure its possible because anything is, but it was not mentioned and it wouldnt have mattered to me either because sway was losing her fight quickly. dodds said many positive things about them, they are very useful if used responsibly. and i can only continue to speak positively of them based off of how it has helped sway. sway has been on the anabolic since around september of 2007...and will continue to be on it (most likely) for the rest of her life. she only gets 1 injection per week, and it is literally 15mg which is just a very tiny amount that barely goes up to the first line on the needle. i bought a vial (about the size of my thumb) of it for around 100 dollars and am still using that same vial, just to show u how small of a dose she gets. i personally have never had sway on Dexamethasone so i have really no thoughts either way on that...sorry,

josh california

I just saw thsi thread: What is Barkley's diagnosis? Pred and Dex are many times used together for different issues. Is this Evans Syndrome? If so, splenectomy should be considered a last resort as you still have teh Liver to deal with. I'll look for the diagnosis on this board before I type too much more.

Courtney Cali

I should mention that my doxie has Evans (IMHA/ITP) we gave dex since it is not long acting ans kicks in to help until the pred does (3/7 days).

Courtney Cali

I also wanted to mention that Pred nor Dex are anabolic steroids, they are corticosteroids.

Courtney CALI

Thanks Josh, Courtney and all -- Barkley's diagnosis to date is idiopathic immune mediated hemolytic anemia. The issue of pure red cell aplasia has so far been ruled out and ITP was also ruled out a few weeks ago. We are at around week 8 in this battle and so far no one has been able to come up with a reason why Barkley's not been responding like most dogs to any of the treatments. He is currently on Atopica, Azothioprine, increased dose of Prednisone, Hi-Vite (with and without aspirin), Famotidine, Sam-E, & Thyroid medication...and all the love I can give him. He's now had 7 blood transfusions and may be starting on Stanozolol (Winstrol)in the very near future. He is going back to the vet on Thursday, 8/21 for complete blood work up again that will in turn be sent to Dr. Dodds for her review and feedback. He keeps rallying with each blood transfusion (packed cells from Dr. Dodds) but his high number is slightly lower each time and he seems to be a little more weary even though he is better than before the transfusion. His most recent before and after numbers were 9 and 16. We are both trying so hard but it certainly gets to be challenging when our maximum efforts don't seem to provide maximum results. Any and all help is more than welcome. By the way, Barkley is a male, neutered 6 year rescued Tibetan Terrier...and he, along with his doggie brother Jake (also a 6 year old rescue dog but a neutered male Afghan Hound), are the loves of my life. Thanks to all for your caring, supportive concern, Barkley and Cheryl

Cheryl Medford

Ok. Yes, Winstrol is anabolic. I am sorry to hear that he has not been responding as favorably as anyone would like. From what I know/hear, if tx's are not working and the transfusions are only short acting then splenectomy can be indicated. Post-splenectomy issues are so tricky though. I will definitely say a prayer for you two and I hope that some relief is in both of your futures.

Courtney Cali

Cheryl, praying you strength, courage and love during this ongoing struggle for you and Barkley. love and hugs and prayers to you

sharon pa

courtney, cheryl was originally asking about deca-durabolin/nandrolone, which is an anabolic steroid.

josh california

Josh: I saw that after the fact, oops.

Courtney SLO

This thread was discussed between 09/08/2008 and 22/08/2008

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